brainygamer

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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 524
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| Posted 04/28/10 at 10:56 AM | Reply with quote #1 |
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Post your thoughts on the Arrival section of the game here. __________________ Michael Abbott
Brainy Gamer blog and podcast |
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oozo

Moderator - Another World
Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 95
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| Posted 04/28/10 at 11:07 AM | Reply with quote #2 |
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One short remark for the organization of the playthrough: If I remember correctly, the 15th Anniversary-edition of the game names the save-states automatically after the last safepoint passed. The names we chose for the different sections should be identical to some of those safegame names, so it should be clear which portion of the game can be addressed where. However, I'm not sure how other edition of the game handle this issue. Should there be any differences or other difficulties, you can check this walkthrough (thanks to Binaryswan for mentioning it); it's divided into the same sections we chose for our playthrough. Hope everything is clear, have fun with "Another World"! |
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shanehinton

Registered: 03/24/10
Posts: 6
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| Posted 04/28/10 at 11:40 AM | Reply with quote #3 |
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Stepping back in it strikes me that the art style's large, bold blocks of color accentuate small variations and guide the eye far more easily than attempted photorealism. I notice it the most when drool dangles from the tooth of the poisonous slug creatures before they tear into the player character's legs. The 2 nonhuman creatures in this segment are the highlight for me, and, having never finished the game, I desperately hope that the catlike one makes another appearance. This was emblematic of my very fuzzy memories of the game from the SNES days when I must have rented it, because as soon as I reached the cutscene where said creature growls directly at the camera I was flooded with nostalgia. The gameplay is solid, but I feel that this game's real value lies in its beauty and it does a remarkable job of embracing that strength, starting for me with the piercing triangular headlights coming off the Ferrari (implying spendy government contracts perhaps?) and continued by the use of the professor's gray shirt as a 180 degree transition.
I'm curious as to whether or not anyone else worries that the code used to access the lab will be important later on; I scribbled it down just in case. And, seriously, how about that cat creature? Would make a great tattoo... __________________ Shane Hinton
http://firstwallrebate.com |
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Frohike

Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 12
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| Posted 04/28/10 at 11:46 AM | Reply with quote #4 |
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@shanehinton, I noticed this too. In the "making of" documentary, Eric Chahi mentioned that his visual style was influenced by manga and its capacity for evocative detail through very focused and somewhat minimal visual idioms. That's very apparent in the opening frames: they're very composed and feel like animated storyboards. I miss this style. |
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mkapolka

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 1
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| Posted 04/28/10 at 07:27 PM | Reply with quote #5 |
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And that super compressed visual style works really well in a game like this, where much of the exposition is told in parallel with the play in the form of the backgrounds and such.
As much as I like the visual presentation, though, it's tough to stay interested when the game is so exceedingly frustrating. Right from the start it wasn't clear when I was in control- the game starts you off sinking in a monster filled pool of water right after a pretty long cutscene (long enough to get comfortable with not being in control, anyway), and doesn't give any indication that you're actually supposed to step in at this point.
That feeling of "not knowing when you're in control" seems to be a theme- I couldn't get any read on where, exactly, the slugs would or wouldn't kill me. Not only that, but if you get too close to them you can't kick them- your foot goes straight through. The best way that I found to deal with them is to kill them all, which is counterintuitive because the room is shaking and little rocks are falling all around you, implying that if I were to stay too long the whole place is going to collapse, and the slugs falling from the ceiling initially seem infinite, when in fact you can take as much time as you want (well, I never had the room collapse anyway, maybe it does if you wait a really long time), and there are a finite number of slugs.
In general, this lack of control manifests in the character feeling extraordinarily sluggish, because of the way he needs to wait until animations complete before changing them. He is supposed to be a scientist, which gives him a reason to be clumsy, but the game only half own up to this- the solutions to puzzles rely on you being crafty and evasive, but the actual execution of them requires something closer to clairvoyance.
Watching a video of the game might portray the character as what he's supposed to be, but the process of actually playing the game required me to use so much foreknowledge of the areas ahead, and make so many attempts to get the timing just right that any immersive quality of the visuals were completely nullified.
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MikeDunbar

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9
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| Posted 04/28/10 at 07:35 PM | Reply with quote #6 |
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I did what mkapolka did, too. I sat there with my arms crossed going... "Oh, he's under water... bobbing about now... oh that thing'll get him. Oh, what? What's this?" So yeah. I died at the very first moment you possibly can. A theme I see running throughout this game already!
I really like the visuals. I haven't got much more to say yet. I'm not that far through (stuck in Jail...).
One thing I'll say is the control scheme is interesting - I like the minimal approach, but I can see it becoming an issue later on... (moves over to the next thread.... __________________ "Then MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T BE LIVING HERE." - Mark Taffin |
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Rowan

Moderator
Registered: 04/23/10
Posts: 305
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| Posted 04/28/10 at 08:19 PM | Reply with quote #7 |
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I liked the death at the start of the game. It established two things instantly: the visual style of the game is maintained between cutscene and game, and that you were going to die. And that was okay. |
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MikeDunbar

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9
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| Posted 04/28/10 at 08:28 PM | Reply with quote #8 |
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Oh I didn't mind it at all. I found it rather amusing. And you're right, it makes the statement that the art-style is maintained throughout - which wasn't always the norm back then. __________________ "Then MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T BE LIVING HERE." - Mark Taffin |
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BinarySwan

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 39
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| Posted 04/28/10 at 08:36 PM | Reply with quote #9 |
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The opening cutscene sets up a very "Back to the Future" style vibe (must be the fast car) which I think gets you in the mood.
I generally had the same reaction to the opening section, being impressed by the visual style but also slightly frustrated by the controls and punitive deaths. The save system does minimise frustration however.
One point of contrast which I think would be interesting to keep in mind is that the 15th Anniversary edition is almost completely devoid of the music I remember from my small amount of time in the snes version. If anyone is playing that version I would be curious to see whether music adds any other emotions to the sections we discuss and if it imposes upon the minimalist style that I find quite engaging __________________ Gerard Delaney
Gamer and blogger @ http://www.binary-swan.com
Gamertag: kr3mlin SteamID: kr3mlin
Location: Melbourne, Australia |
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Jebus

Registered: 03/19/09
Posts: 92
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| Posted 04/29/10 at 01:32 AM | Reply with quote #10 |
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The 15th Anniversary edition has a option for enhanced music and enhanced graphics, so I assume I can turn them off and play the game as it originally looked and sounded. I haven't though and I never played the original so I'm not positive it is the same. If the music is different from the original I definitely enjoy it, it doesn't hinder the minimalist quality at all. If anything it adds to the creepy and empty atmosphere the game does so well. |
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BinarySwan

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 39
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| Posted 04/29/10 at 03:36 AM | Reply with quote #11 |
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Ok, it might be a bug I am experiencing as I do not get any music at all when I'm playing, it was only present during the intro cutscene __________________ Gerard Delaney
Gamer and blogger @ http://www.binary-swan.com
Gamertag: kr3mlin SteamID: kr3mlin
Location: Melbourne, Australia |
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shanehinton

Registered: 03/24/10
Posts: 6
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| Posted 04/29/10 at 09:38 AM | Reply with quote #12 |
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This is an interesting site where the designer talks about his experiences creating the game. It might explain differences between the music in the older versions and the Anniversary Edition.
http://www.anotherworld.fr/anotherworld_uk/page_versions.htm __________________ Shane Hinton
http://firstwallrebate.com |
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MoriartyL

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 295
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| Posted 04/30/10 at 08:47 AM | Reply with quote #13 |
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The world of this game reminds me of the movie Avatar, in that it's this appealing fantasy world that if you were ever to visit there, it would chew you up and spit you out in fifteen seconds flat. I like that you're going to die instantly unless you realize "Oh hey, I've got control here.". It perfectly fits the panic that the character ought to be feeling at that moment. Remember, he doesn't realize he's starting an adventure. He's just running an experiment, and suddenly he's underwater and about to die. If there were a clear indication that the cutscene were over, the start of the game would be a lot less dramatic. As it is, we're starting the game on a note which is very distinctive and interesting: "You're an ordinary guy, you're in a fantasy world, you are about to die."
And then you take a few steps, step over some vague black thing and die again. And even if you manage to survive those, some more obvious monster is going to jump out at you. This is possibly the most tense opening to a game I've ever seen. It's not giving you a moment to figure out the controls, it's not giving you a chance to build up your skill, it's throwing you in at the deep end and it's one danger after another.
In the "presentation" thread, it was stated that this game has a minimalist aesthetic. I think the minimalism of the game extends well beyond the look of it, and informs every aspect of the game's design. Or maybe "minimalism" isn't the right word. But whatever you want to call it, this is not a game with padding of any kind. It is not a game where you're going to wander around aimlessly waiting for something to happen. It is not a game where one challenge is followed by twenty identical challenges. It is not a game trying to be all things to all people. It is not a game which is gratuitous. It is what it is and nothing more, and in this is its strength.
Let's imagine that this were made by a big videogame company. You'd start in the room with the black poisonous things. And after that there would be another room with the same enemies in it. And right after that there would be a room with the same enemies again, but with a greater number of them this time. And then there would be a room with the same enemies again, but where the design of the room makes it trickier to dodge them. And after that you'd have a room with the same enemies again but also one new kind of enemy. And after that you'd have a room with all the same enemies, and a puzzle. And after that you'd have a room that splits up two ways, with each way leading to another room with the same enemies. And so on, and so forth, and in the end you've finished playing a fifteen-hour game but nothing much has happened. You haven't gone on any sort of emotional journey, you've just been taught how to play better and better. "Learning is fun, games are learning."
Another World refuses to waste your time. As soon as you pass this first series of challenges, you're shot and thrown in jail. Even taking into account all the trial and error, we're talking about a matter of minutes from one huge plot point to the next. And so the plot is in focus. If the big-budget version of this I suggested earlier had gotten you shot and thrown in prison, it would be only a good two or three hours in and the event would have no impact. But condensed as the plot is here, it becomes coherent and engaging. This, despite the fact that the plot is extremely simple. Many games have complicated plots which are told over the course of dozens of hours. Here is the opposite extreme, and I think I like it better.
Now, consider the economy of design/storytelling in this first section here. As soon as you get out of the water, you see the monster that's about to attack you in a minute. And when it does, it doesn't chase you toward the right, it chases you back toward where you've already been.
Come to think of it, maybe it's not so different from the standard design methods after all. We've got a room with black things, then a room with more of the black things, then a room with a new monster, then a race through a room with more black things, then another room with black things, then a puzzle, then more black things, etc. But it doesn't feel repetitive and mechanical, because with everything set up right at the beginning -the rope, the rooms, the monster- before you reach even the first jumping challenge, it feels organic and obvious.
__________________ My computer games (for Windows and Linux):
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cmbreault
Registered: 04/24/10
Posts: 10
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| Posted 04/30/10 at 07:45 PM | Reply with quote #14 |
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I love that the game's first real puzzle, looping around the monster, plays out in such an intuitive way. I think most of the game's best puzzles have indirect solutions like this, where you bypass a conflict or use unconventional means to resolve it. You could argue that most puzzles in games require encourage indirect solutions (this is almost the definition of a puzzle); however, most adventure game puzzles aren't composed of time-sensitive sequences where enemies charge at you or shoot a gun at you. I associate that kind of puzzle/action only with a few games, like the original Alone in the Dark or Dragon's Lair (or Flashback, but we're not gonna talk about that).
In my eyes, Another World stands apart from those games in the creativity of its solutions. It has the speed of an action/adventure game, but the puzzling elegance of a static adventure game. You quickly learn the pattern which this first looping puzzle establishes: you'll be faced with a direct, terrifying threat, and you need to use the environment to change the terms of the conflict. The best puzzle along these lines, maybe the best in the game, is found in City 2, but I won't spoil it here. The game's final conflict (which is simple/archetypal, but incredibly freighted with emotion) also works like this.
But, to avoid mythologizing: I don't think Another World is a "perfect" game, or a perfectly common sense game, or an entirely brilliant one. Some of its puzzles are more clever than others, and some of its ideas are better than others. The game's at its worst when it forces you to reply to direct aggression in kind, via the awkward shooting sections. |
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brainygamer

Moderator
Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 524
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| Posted 04/30/10 at 11:51 PM | Reply with quote #15 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by cmbreault It has the speed of an action/adventure game, but the puzzling elegance of a static adventure game. Bingo. That captures it exactly for me.
I sometimes find puzzles intrusive in games where they seem imposed as a means of restricting the player's progression for no apparent reason (see Silent Hill: Shattered Memories).
Figuring out how to escape the monster in Another World feels like an in-game narrative imperative, rather than a designer imposed gate. I agree that not every puzzle rises to this level of elegance, but most do, and I enjoy letting the game teach me how to succeed through my failures.
As several of you have noted, it's a very good thing the game reloads as quickly as it does after a failure. Seems like a little thing, but add 5 seconds on to that reload time, and a lot of players just walk away angry and frustrated. __________________ Michael Abbott
Brainy Gamer blog and podcast |
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oozo

Moderator - Another World
Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 95
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| Posted 05/03/10 at 04:24 PM | Reply with quote #16 |
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I'm with the people disagreeing with calling "Another World" minimalist - what gets closer to the truth might be "pure", and maybe "focussed". I think that's what all those people citing the game as an influence try to achieve (and maybe nobody but Ueda actually achieves): Chahi's game feels very much bullshit-free. I mean, that beginning gets me every time: Even though it might have been due to memory constraints, Chahi cuts right to the essence. He seems to be totally in control of what he wants to do and communicate, pretty much every time. Honestly - could that first cut-scene be any more efficient? I couldn't think of much that could be added or cut to enhance it. The protagonist's way of parking his car, the way he leans back in his chair, opens his can - we know a good deal about this person in less than 30 seconds time. We know, for once, that he is a confident person, which makes his stumbling around in the new world all the more poignant (or, if you want, ironic; either way, there’s a clear contrast between the two worlds). Btw, I like the fact that the animal stumbles, as well - it's a game of missteps and near-misses, and it's open about it from the very start. It’s very easy to think of superfluous things that could have been added, though – first and foremost a HUD. I guess the player has to pay a price for this – the repeated deaths might be a direct result of Chahi’s refusal to (literally) spell everything out (how many designers would have put some flashy “move!”-pointers on the screen in that first scene?). It’s a small price to pay, though, because the aesthetics profit tremendously IMHO. And it may be keeping Chahi from overcomplicating stuff – in keeping the focus on a series of basic actions that are varied and iterated during the rest of the game. A great deal of smart things have already been said here; especially Moriarty has highlighted a lot of impressions I had, too. What I would like to add, though, is this: “Another World” might have one of the smartest use of cut-scenes I ever encountered in a videogame. It uses them as exclamation-marks rather than whole paragraphs. I mean, that very short interlude of the lion attacking – it’s over in mere seconds, it doesn’t break the flow in the slightest, but it sure as hell gets the point across. It’s not only that the same engine is used for cut-scenes and game-play (the perspectives change drastically), but it’s all about pacing. Kojima certainly was an odd student of this mentor. |
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Frohike

Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 12
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| Posted 05/03/10 at 11:52 PM | Reply with quote #17 |
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@oozo "It’s very easy to think of superfluous things that could have been added, though – first and foremost a HUD. I guess the player has to pay a price for this[...]"
To be fair, I don't think the use of a detailed HUD as you're describing it ("go here" hints, etc.) was really in the gaming lexicon of the time. The closest visual predecessor to this was Karateka, and I don't recall that game having a heads-up display or hint system, but my memory's rusty when I go that far back (hit points might have been displayed?). So I don't think the absence of such a device was necessarily a conscious choice of Chahi's, but it's certainly worth noting that using a HUD would have compromised the "system" of the game, which is what you're getting at here anyway  |
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maggotrain

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10
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| Posted 05/04/10 at 04:43 PM | Reply with quote #18 |
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What else to say, not much... The atmosphere is great, difficulty is quite where it should be for keeping the game interesting and the length of levels is nice.
It doesnt somehow feel that hard that i thought it would be. The first ten tries were horrible, cause i tried to jump over the small crawling things cause i didnt know it was possible to kick them. Many games from that era are harder to me, even i played them a lot in the early nineties. I might take that back after few levels.
The first level also is a great intro to mechanics of the game, the enemies and overall feeling and setting to the world. You get to see good variety of enemies and there is a nice rhythm too. |
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sglasheen
Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 9
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| Posted 05/04/10 at 05:43 PM | Reply with quote #19 |
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Its funny, but after finishing the game and thinking about its constituent parts, the one component that really bothers me is the ferrari. There is no problem in any technical sense; the wholes sequence looks great. The problem is that Lester's car is a Ferrari. Which is kind of eighties action movie cheesy. Does experimental physics really pay well enough for Lester to afford a Ferrari?
It feels like the kind of thing that would lead the 12 year-old me to say "awesome" and (to paraphrase a speculative quote) "of course he drives a Ferrari. Anyone I aspire to control as an avatar must be awesome enough to own a Ferrari. Or at least a Lamborghini Countach, which while a bit gauche is sufficiently prestigious to placate my adolescent ego."
I think it would be a little less on-the-nose if the game refrained from making a superfluous announcement re said Ferrari via the lab's computer. The game really wanted us to know Lester drove that Ferrari. |
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oozo

Moderator - Another World
Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 95
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| Posted 05/10/10 at 08:07 AM | Reply with quote #20 |
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@sglasheen I admit, the Ferrari is kinda odd. But as I wrote above, I ended up thinking that it has a purpose: It's part of the introduction of the character. The (bad-ass) car and the way he toys around with what seems to be not only pretty damn expensive, but also apparently dangerous scientific equipment, alone at night, in a (literally) completely laid-back way, for me introduced him as a very confident person (I even could think of him as somewhat cocky). That makes the contrast with him ending up completely lost all the more poignant; on the same time, it makes him could surviving against all odds in kinda more credible.
Than again, that might only be me extrapolating, and it still doesn't excuse the scene with the computer lamp-shading it... you might be forgiven thinking of Chahi as a fan-boy of expensive cars in general, the "Back To The Future"-movies or (gasp!) even "Knight Rider"... 
@frohike Guess you are right by pointing out the unhistorical character of my claim. The constant excessive hand-holding (or friendly support, your linage may vary) by on-screen hints is a product of more recent times. Still, "Another World" is bare even for its time; in lack of better examples I checked with the first contemporary platform-shooter that came to my mind, "Contra 3" (I know it's not an accurate comparison, but still...), and you do have there a lot more on-screen information by the way of a HUD. Plus, after the intro, you have a screen flashing up with the words "Stage 1-1", which arguably didn't provide the player with much useful information even back then, other than preparing him for taking over control... Chahi's decision to get rid of all this is what I was aiming at. (Mechner's "Prince of Persia", while being more subtle and much closer to "Another World" in a lot of regards, couldn't help starting with informing the player via text that he was in "Level 1", either.) |
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loder

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 3
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| Posted 01/26/11 at 02:23 PM | Reply with quote #21 |
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I remember I was about 14 when I first saw the intro to Another World.
I have to admit I was seriously impressed, the way the game instantly jumped into the action was very exciting. Being stranded on an Alien World reminded me of Flashback.
Although I never completed Another World I found the game was incredibly fun to play.
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