Roy
Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 2
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Posted 02/12/10
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#1
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As Lucas mentioned in 'Your first hour', the game causes me to feel as if I truly inhabit the suit of the big daddy (the opening sequence, the patter on the helmet, occasionally catching a glimpse of your own hulking shadow etc.). I think this change of player character addresses lots of incongruous elements from the first game:
It justifies the silent protagonist (a gaming trope that nearly always lacks context) and the kind of one-sided expositional dialogue that comes with it.
It justifies the player's ability to murder numerous desperate addicts without breaking a sweat.
It provides a player-character who has genuine motivation, found in rescuing your 'daughter', Eleanor (wouldn't want to assume too much there, this is Bioshock!) Although the first game explained (ingeniously) why 'Jack' was so eager to gallivant around Rapture without much persuasion, it seemed odd until the reveal.
It also provides a few new conflicts, though. Such as how (and why) would a big daddy smoke down a 20 pack?
Any thoughts on becoming Rapture's iconic resident?
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Roy Jones
http://www.twitter.com/joyrones
Gamertag: Sinkytown
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LouisF
Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 117
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Posted 02/12/10
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#2
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Nothing much, except that I am eager to find out what exactly makes this particular Daddy "different", what explains his rather odd behaviour. The meeting with Grace Halloway only reinforces that curiosity.
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"It is easier to break the rules once you are aware of them." (Jesper Juul)
http://secretmeandering.blogspot.com/
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lucasrizoli
Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 11
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Posted 02/13/10
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#3
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This post discusses the end of the game, so if you've not yet finished BioShock 2 (and you care about this sort of thing) don't read it.
Though the daddy aspect of my role was made pretty clear in the game's opening cinematic, it wasn't until Eleanor and I headed to the pediatric wards that I realized how important I was as a father. Who would've thought that the role-playing aspect of BioShock 2 was being a role model?
In a way, the consequences of my actions were, as in the first BioShock and in many other games (Mass Effect 2), a straight-forward sum of smaller decisions I made along the way to the finish (though I've not yet played through a second time, harvesting instead of rescuing, or mixing, or leaving most of the little sisters alone): Eleanor followed my example.
But there was something about seeing some other agent carry out the consequences, to have my decisions interpreted, extrapolated, that made me feel influential, responsible. In BioShock, my sense of being responsible for my actions was taken away from me when I confronted Ryan. BioShock 2 felt like it worked the other way around. The twist was that I was much more influential than I believed I was.
Big daddy indeed. That was my daughter, acting as I had taught her.
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callguinness
Moderator
Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 36
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Posted 02/13/10
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#4
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I personally didn't feel very fatherly at any point in the game. I think it would have been more effective if you deal with a single little sister the entire time (Eleanor) and had to protect her from other big daddies not recognizing your authority instead of stealing her from others.
I also just set up my PS2 and am dying to play ICO again so that may be influencing my view of BioShock 2...
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callguinness
Moderator
Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 36
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Posted 02/13/10
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#5
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I just realized this game really humanizes the big daddies. You play as one, of course, but there is also --almost endgame spoiler-- Meltzer and Sinclair. It's actually very interesting how you can't save any big daddies in the same way you can save little sisters. Why is this? Imagine if you could use all the Adam you harvest/save from a little sister to revive her big daddy guardian. Wow, now that would be a true sacrifice/"moral decision"
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Tellurian
Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 13
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Posted 02/14/10
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#6
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Also that way you could build an army of Big Daddies.
Hm, nice. There's a wish for Bioshock 3. Let the player free the Big Daddies in order to build up an unstoppable force to take down whoever's in charge of Rapture (or whatever place a third part may take place).
So the choice could be for the player to choose whether he wants all the Big Daddy power for himself, or if he wants to save the Daddies and build a strong army. Be a commander, or a one-man-army. Of sorts...
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lucasrizoli
Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 11
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Posted 02/14/10
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#7
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Quote: Originally Posted by callguinness
I personally didn't feel very fatherly at any point in the game.
I don't know if I did either—I'm not a father—but I did feel responsible for how Eleanor acted. It was most similar to how I felt seeing the actors I directed and wrote for (in high school) perform. I was, to some extent, the author of those events, but not the only agent. I was being interpreted. I had influence and intentions, but no direct hand.
It was brief, but it was cool.
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LouisF
Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 117
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Posted 02/14/10
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#8
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I wouldn't say that the actual dealings with the Sisters carried much fatherly weight either, but the final portion of Fontaine Futuristics sealed the deal for me. (medium-heavy spoilers follow) I felt that Lamb's utterances and the overall tone of the voice-overs was intended to make me feel grief about the inescapable condition of the typical Big Daddy, and when the time came to take one down and adopt a new Sister, I knew deep inside that it had succeeded. It seemed requisite to go through with the rescue, if only out of respect for the pattern established, but given different odds I would've probably left him alone. Then came the poignantly-scored fight with this apparently common protector who turned out to be Mark Metzer, whose plight we had learned to empathize with in bits and pieces. Although somewhat heavy-handed, I thought that the story told through Metzer's game-spanning logs served as a perfect verbalization of the ordeal my character was supposed to be going through, and thus a wonderful way to bypass the challenge of the silent protagonist.
Then the final act started, and I'm going to finish it right now 
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"It is easier to break the rules once you are aware of them." (Jesper Juul)
http://secretmeandering.blogspot.com/
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Tellurian
Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 13
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Posted 02/15/10
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#9
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Regarding the Little Sister adoption fights, I think even though it could've been exploited by the player, they should've included an option for the player to "call" a little sister by knocking on a vent. Whenever there was none around. I mean, sheesh, you're a Big Daddy...
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LouisF
Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 117
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Posted 02/15/10
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#10
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I'm sure they could spin you some sort of explanation about this... but you're right, it feels lacking.
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"It is easier to break the rules once you are aware of them." (Jesper Juul)
http://secretmeandering.blogspot.com/
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Tellurian
Registered: 02/13/10
Posts: 13
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Posted 02/19/10
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#11
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Knowing the ending bits, playing through again on a "bad daddy" way feels so awfully wrong.
It's really... unpleasant harvesting the little ones.
Especially when they've just said someting cute close to a 'Sister Vent.
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ChrisDunkley
Registered: 02/12/10
Posts: 9
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Posted 02/20/10
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#12
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I guess I felt like a Big Daddy but it was sporadic; everytime I walked under water or jumped off something and watched the screen shake and sound rumble as I hit the ground.
Ultimately I think they missed some more basic tricks that would have increased the immersion (I hate this word... but it applies here). The "helmet experience" was better in Metroid Prime simply because that game did a better job of establishing that there is a piece of glass between you and the world. I wish that you could occasionally catch your own reflection in BS2. I wish that you could more obviously tell when light is bouncing around inside your helmet aswell.
More importantly I wish that they had made the glass dirty. Scratches and dust that are momentarily lit up by particular lighting would have gone a long way to making me feel like I was inside a helmet. It's also in keeping with the setting, where nothing is ever clean. I guess it might have been annoying if suddenly you couldn't see because light is refracting off dust and blurring your vision but that's why they let you turn the helmet off in the first place and I wouldn't want it to be that obstructing. Just enough to show that there was texture to the glass between you and the world.
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CrashT
Registered: 08/19/08
Posts: 327
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Posted 03/04/10
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#13
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I really wouldn't have wanted to see my own reflection in the glass, simply because I don't want to know what 2K Marin thought I looked like inside the suit. The explanation of who Delta was original was vague enough, and presented by a character I didn't trust in any way, that I could really imagine it was anybody. All the other little elements from Metroid Prime, like the dirt and scratches I'd have loved to have seen that.
I'm not a father, but the final level of BioShock 2 really hit me hard emotionally.
End game spoilers follow:
The inversion of the relationship between Eleanor and I and seeing the women she'd become through witnessing my actions had a big impact on me. I had essentially taught her how to behavior and seeing her become this powerful, dangerous, yet compassionate young women was a very moving experience.
BioShock 2 succeeded in doing what ICO never achieved for me, I actually gave a damn about Eleanor because she felt like a character where as Yorda was, and remains, a puzzle piece, and one I wish I could leave behind half the time. Yorda's far too much the victim where as Eleanor is able to make her own choices and she chose to help me... the only father she knows.
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Justin Keverne
GamerTag: CrashT
Groping The Elephant
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brainygamer
Moderator
Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 524
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Posted 03/09/10
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#14
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I had a very similar reaction to the end of the game, Justin. Eleanor feels like a real person to me, and I can't think of many games that have placed me in such an empathetic relationship with an NPC. Even calling Eleanor an "NPC" seems like a certain kind of injustice.
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Michael Abbott
Brainy Gamer blog and podcast
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Loberto
Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 10
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Posted 03/09/10
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#15
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I want to ask how many people followed There's Something in the Sea before/after the game came out? For me, it greatly affected my engagement with Mark Metzer. How attached does the average player get who hasn't met Metzer prior to turning on the game?
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