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davidcarlton

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Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 548
Reply with quote  #1 
I've gone through the game now; I'm not sure what I think about it.  It took me two play sessions; in the first, I got as far as getting stuck where I was supposed to drop the green bulb on the guard in City 2, in the second I finished the game.

In my first session, I was pretty impressed by the game.  I'm not sure how much of that had to do with abstract merits of the game, and how much of that had to do with its being at just the right difficulty level for me that evening: I barely managed to muster both the puzzle-solving ability and the manual dexterity to make it through all of the sections.

In contrast, today I ended up looking at a walkthrough three times.  One was where I stopped at the end of the previous session; one was in the bit where one of your enemies hits a door switch while you're pointing a gun at him, and one was at the end where I just didn't want to go through more trial and error to figure out exactly what to do.

I guess that second time when I resorted to a walkthrough got to me a little bit.  I was proud of myself for noticing after a few attempts that I wasn't supposed to shoot one enemy, because he would erect a barrier I needed.  That was neat, I always like it when a puzzle requires me to figure out something new about how a game world might behave.

But, as it turns out, I actually needed to figure out two new ideas: I not only had to notice that, I had to think about grenades and behave differently with another enemy.  And having to figure out two different ideas in the same section was, perhaps, a bit much.

The combat also started to get to me at around this point: there are a bunch of battles where people are shooting at you a lot, and it took me a fair amount of trial and error and error and luck and error to make it through those.  Now, having said that, there is some amount of skill in the battles, and at the very end of the game I actually ended up being reasonably good at fighting the battles.  But it was still a bit much for me; I would perhaps have preferred for the game to have broken out a session where I would have honed my fighting skills without having to worry about puzzles as well.  (And then, once I'd honed those skills, for the game not to have forced me to use them over and over again...)

Still, having said that, there are so many ways in which the game chose to not belabor mechanics (especially in comparison to recent games) that I end up being pretty favorably inclined to it.  And the change-up of mechanics (except for one shooting bit) in the last two areas was nice.  I think I rather like the world, though I have to think about that, too; I certainly like the art style.

Great choice for re-inaugurating the VGC.

artfulgamer

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Registered: 04/27/10
Posts: 5
Reply with quote  #2 
After owning this game for almost 20 years, I'm still impressed at its refusal to obey what we today called game "mechanics". As @davidcarlton is suggesting, I often get the feeling that the world isn't going to allow me to do the same thing twice. That's is refreshing change from the altogether mechanical systematicity and regularity of the vast majority of contemporary games. 

I think of it, a little bit, like using side-scrolling action to express the best parts of an adventure (text or graphical) game: unpredictability, and lateral thinking.
Jebus

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Registered: 03/19/09
Posts: 92
Reply with quote  #3 
First off, I want to say I loved the game and thanks to all who suggested it and who made this communal playthrough happen.  I had somehow never even heard of Another World until you guys started discussing whether or not it would be a viable option for the club back in October.

I did think some of the puzzles were a little too obtuse and I ended up resorting to using a walkthrough four times, which usually resulted in a "I never would have figured that out" exclamation.  I got stuck in pretty much the same places as David, as well as shooting the bat in the Caves.  The bat puzzle didn't make much sense to me, when you shoot the giant aliens they vaporize, but the bat just flies away and into the tentacle creature.  When the tentacle thing grabs you an animation plays that implies being torn apart, but the bat just stays there so you can safely pass.  The whole thing seemed kind of off.  I'm nitpicking though, the bat totally stands out, which basically means shoot here in video game terms, so I'm alright with the puzzle.

As far as the combat goes, I don't think any one part was too difficult and I was quite impressed with how tactical it could get with only three options in two dimensions.  The only parts I had any trouble with were when a guy came at me from either side in City 2 and immediately after landing from that awning near the end.  I managed to beat both long before I got frustrated however.

My favorite part of the game is definitely the presentation.  I generally love anything with an interesting art style and a rich atmosphere so this was a treat.  I found it even more amazing coming from a 2D game made when I was five.  We already have a topic for presentation though so I'll post any further thoughts there.

Thanks again, it was awesome!



madsdk

Registered: 06/22/09
Posts: 68
Reply with quote  #4 
I have thoroughly enjoyed revisiting Another World. I have always had fond memories of playing this game on my Amiga, but I had never thought of playing through it again before you guys started discussing it. So thank you for that experience :-)

I must admit that I too used the walkthrough twice - for the bat, which I forgot to shoot at, and for the place where you have to dig a hole in the section below you using grenades. As an adventure-gamer using a walkthrough hurt a bit, but I wanted to progress through the game so that I could follow the discussions.

My favorite part of the game is definitely the difficulty. Being so difficult made it feel like something was actually at stake while playing it. After _finally_ getting past some guard/trap/whatever that I had tried to get past maybe 50 times, I would be a nervous wreck until the next time I died, because I didn't know whether or not I had reached a save point :-)

Apart from that the game is also extremely beautiful - and that comes from someone who played the original and not the remake ;-)

What did you guys think of the final remark by the way? When I finished the game I ended up with a black screen with a single line of text: "Now Go Back To Another Earth". Just a witty remark from the designer, or something that is meant to mean something in the game universe?

Octarine

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Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 32
Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by madsdk

What did you guys think of the final remark by the way? When I finished the game I ended up with a black screen with a single line of text: "Now Go Back To Another Earth". Just a witty remark from the designer, or something that is meant to mean something in the game universe?

I never understood the ending, and still don't. The last cutscene leaves everything open - where are they going? Will Lester live? How will he return to earth? It's not a bad way to end the game, just leaves me a bit disappointed (they used a similer open ending in Flashback, the "spiritual successor", but there, at least it left some place for hope).
And that last sentence doesn't make sense to me. Maybe it is just a bad translation from French...?
sglasheen

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 9
Reply with quote  #6 
I really liked the ending because it leaves everything open.  That is to say, it gives us every answer that is available at that moment and nothing more.  It doesn't give us an implausible, purely happy ending in which Lester somehow gets home (despite no conceivable way of recreating the accident which brought him).  It does tell us that he is alive and he is not alone.  I think that with the pervasive sense of alienness and isolation that Lester must feel, a little solidarity is enough.

I think that is related to what I loved about the game on this replay; it gave us everything we needed and which we would plausibly have no more, no less.  We had no information regarding the aliens other than what we saw.  The only dialog was untranslated (because it was untranslatable) alien speech (in the 15th anniversary edition at least). 

That fidelity to plausibility -- within certain limitations -- is what allowed the game to convincingly instill that sense of loneliness that Lester must feel and the utter sense of alienness the world must hold for him.  In turn, in that world, survival and companionship are the best one could realistically hope for. 

Of course I'm listening to Boxer by the National (still a great record) so I could be coasting on artificial melancholy - so grain of salt, etc.
madsdk

Registered: 06/22/09
Posts: 68
Reply with quote  #7 
I agree wholeheartedly with sglasheen. The ending is perfect in its realism I think. And to me it is a happy ending. Compared to what our hero has been through in the game, flying away with a friend to what I can only imagine must be a better place is a good thing. Lester is pretty beat up at the end of the game, but when flying away I think he was sitting _behind_ Buddy, right? If he has enough strength to hold on to Buddy while flying he probably has the strength to survive...

I love how the ending is open for interpretation :-)
BinarySwan

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Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 39
Reply with quote  #8 
I have a feeling of satisfaction in completing this game because I learned something a little about myself as a player. I am extremely forgiving of a game that does something wrong when the things it does right are just too brilliant (Bioshock I'm looking at you). Almost all the flaws I find in this game I feel like I can attribute to it being a product of its time and I find my willingness to ignore them because of that fact quite interesting.

What place will this game with its golden moments and its flaws hold in ten years given that it exists in a medium that is evolving so rapidly? I don't think gamers going back to play Another World will find their experience akin to recognizing and appreciating the nuances of language in some classic literary work but that is the only parallel I can think of. This game has alot within it to love (especially the closing moments) but I worry that this barrier present in Another World will only grown and its chance of being appreciated diminish. However, I certainly hope that I am wrong

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Frohike

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Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 12
Reply with quote  #9 
@Binary Swan "I don't think gamers going back to play Another World will find their experience akin to recognizing and appreciating the nuances of language in some classic literary work but that is the only parallel I can think of."

Brilliant! This is going to rattle around in my head for the rest of the day... coming upon an old game as one would an old language, or a story told in such a language.  Thanks for this.
madsdk

Registered: 06/22/09
Posts: 68
Reply with quote  #10 
@BinarySwan: The parallel to reading a classical text is excellent. I recently read "Crime and Punishment" by Dostoyevsky in an old english translation that I downloaded from Project Gutenberg (www.gutenberg.org). Being a non-native english reader, I did struggle somewhat with this old english (I certainly learned to appreciate the built-in dictionary in my ebook reader), but for me that was an important part of the total experience of reading the book. Without it I don't think the book in itself would have captivated me to the degree that it did.

Thinking about it that is exactly how I felt about replaying Another World. Sure the game is flawed, and sure I sometimes needed to consult the dictionary (walkthrough), but I was very forgiving to these thing, and instead of being angry with the game for not telling me to e.g., dig holes in the floor one section down using grenades, I blamed myself for not noticing it when I finally read the walkthrough, and continued enjoying the game.

madsdk

Registered: 06/22/09
Posts: 68
Reply with quote  #11 
Just a quick note to anyone who hasn't been able to complete the game for some reason or other. If you want to join in on the discussion you could spend 23 minutes watching this video. This links to a youtube video of someone completing Another World on the Amiga.
twentyeighth

Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 3
Reply with quote  #12 
I think the ending is fine for the piece because the game is not about return and redemption as it is about acclimation of both the protagonist and the player. Yeah, there are obtuse puzzles, two of which forced me to walk-throughs, but their opacity is sort of justified by the setting.

We're on foreign soil. The rules and logic of our world partially apply here. And so the ending should not concern Lester's return as much as it should concern his acquiescence to the rules that define this new world (and, consequentially, if that world accepts him too--which it does).

In less words, I agree with sglasheen.
Rowan

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Registered: 04/23/10
Posts: 305
Reply with quote  #13 
The video is cool, madsdk, but I went to the part I was stuck on and discovered that the guy who was killing me...wasn't there? Maybe he disappears if I go to the other places in the right order? Maybe the old PC version is much harder?
oozo

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Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 95
Reply with quote  #14 
Just finished the game - I actually played and finished it for the first time last year, and it gets easier the second time around (that holds especially true for the puzzles; I still would die often in the parts that asked for reflexes, or exact controls, or tactics, or a mix of all this).

I actually plan on writing down some quick thoughts and give it another go tomorrow - that time trying to be more observant.

It might be a funny coincidence that the game is also "cinematic" in this way: it takes an experienced (and not even very skilled) player roughly the same time to finish than watching a film. I got to the end in a little under two hours - a span of time that might be considered "short" in video game terms, but that is just fine for this game. 
I mean, I have sunken 40+ hours in quite some games I admired, but I think it's no coincidence  that some of the universally most beloved games ("Ico", "Portal", "Sands of Time") opt for a shorter playtime, thus avoiding the danger of getting exhaustive.
(I also wonder if it might be due to different modes of memories, making it easier for shorter games to be remembered as one complete, self-contained narrative or capsule of memory... I guess this is also the reason why the threads dedicated to the beginning, the end and general issues have more comments than ones for the individual sections - the game just is not really experienced and perceived as a conglomerate of individual units.)

Anyway, I once read an interview with a game-designer (don't remember who it was, unfortunately - can anybody help me out?) who said that s/he would return at least once a year to "Another World", almost ritually, to play through it, soak in the world and atmosphere and, simply, get lost. I can see where s/he is coming from - if anything, I enjoyed this play-through more than my first one. It's a little less frustrating, a little more flowing, a little easier to just be immersed.

That said, I do not really fear that the game will be totally lost on future generations. I think the presentation is abstract enough that it will still be enjoyable in another 15 years, and the game-play... well, if people in 10 or 20 years from now will pick up a game from the early 90s, they will probably be "connoisseurs" anyway - Binaryswan's parallel seems apt indeed. I think for those people, the game might still have something to offer - just as it had something to offer to all the people here who seem to have enjoyed it, for more than purely historical reasons. (Maybe the future will proof me wrong, but I'm willing to take that risk )

As for the ending...
I always read "Now Go Back To Another Earth" as addressing the player - Lester's alter ego who, very much like himself, got sucked into and lost in a wondrous place. (Which would turn the whole game into a metaphor for playing games.) The word "Earth" in contrast to "World" implied that, or at least so I thought...
davidcarlton

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Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 548
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jebus
As far as the combat goes .... I was quite impressed with how tactical it could get with only three options in two dimensions.

Yeah.  It's a great example of the puzzle-box nature of the game: take something pretty minimalist, isolate its component parts, and see how far you can take the combinations.
Nelsormensch

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Registered: 07/22/08
Posts: 12
Reply with quote  #16 
I think my favourite accomplish of Another World is that it tells a simple but compelling story without a single line of text or dialog. Everything is done through the environment and the actors therein. Most modern games can't even refrain from abusing the player with a double-barreled blast of backstory (how's that for alliteration?) that they likely don't care about.

And although the flow is often broken when you're dying over and over in the same area, there are moments where the protagonist's emotional state and the player's are totally in sync. The arena area hits it best, but there were other moments as well. That kind of synergy (is there a less tainted term?) is still too rare.

I wrote up more thoughts here as well (sorry, too late to summarize).
madsdk

Registered: 06/22/09
Posts: 68
Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowan
The video is cool, madsdk, but I went to the part I was stuck on and discovered that the guy who was killing me...wasn't there? Maybe he disappears if I go to the other places in the right order? Maybe the old PC version is much harder?


I must admit that I have not watched the video myself. I have played the old PC version, so it is completable ;-) Exactly where are you stuck?
Rowan

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Reply with quote  #18 
In the prison, when I get to the elevator. I go to the bottom floor, and I'm supposed to charge up the circuit. But as soon as I walk onto that screen, I get blasted by an enemy which isn't present in the video.
madsdk

Registered: 06/22/09
Posts: 68
Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowan
In the prison, when I get to the elevator. I go to the bottom floor, and I'm supposed to charge up the circuit. But as soon as I walk onto that screen, I get blasted by an enemy which isn't present in the video.


Hmm, there was a guard there in my version as well, but somehow I managed to shoot him by simply blasting away as soon as I entered the room.
Jebus

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Registered: 03/19/09
Posts: 92
Reply with quote  #20 
Have you tried going up to the top floor, looking out the window and then looking at the middle floor before going down?  Maybe that will somehow alter the enemy AI to give you a fighting chance.  I dunno, worth a shot maybe?
Octarine

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Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 32
Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowan
In the prison, when I get to the elevator. I go to the bottom floor, and I'm supposed to charge up the circuit. But as soon as I walk onto that screen, I get blasted by an enemy which isn't present in the video.

What you need to do is stop at the edge of the elevator screen. Then take one step forward (this moves you to the room with the guard) and immediately duck and fire. You have about a second before he turns around to notice you. Takes a bit of practice but it works.

Also, I prefer to leave the friend in a different floor. I just checked and he doesn't alert the guard even if he goes in the room, but I find it easier when he doesn't get in the way.
newton64

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Registered: 04/27/10
Posts: 6
Reply with quote  #22 
Another World is beautiful, stylish, subtle, and---importantly---self-restrained: a lot of atmosphere and information is presented in a short time span, but the audio and visual cues lay it out (sans HUD!) for the player who's willing to look. And the sense of novelty at every new environment and game mechanic expertly keeps up the pace.

The game takes the player on a trip, and stops the ride before anyone can get tired. And of course that just leaves us all wanting more.

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newton64

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by artfulgamer
I think of it, a little bit, like using side-scrolling action to express the best parts of an adventure (text or graphical) game: unpredictability, and lateral thinking.


Oh, and I love love love this.

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ILR

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 140
Reply with quote  #24 
I pretty much wrote my original thoughts in the preliminary discussion half a year ago, and the replay from last weekend didn't change the impression that much. On subsequent playthroughs, Another World is not so much about the puzzles, it's more about the execution.

I agree that some puzzles are a bit clumsy in that you have to deduce solutions from pretty much thin air, and the cause-effect -relationship especially regarding some closed doors can be very vague. Opening up the floor with the guard's bombs was so out of the blue that I still remembered it from the eight-or-so years back when first playing the game.

However, the thing I appreciate is that everything in these 'puzzles' is solved with the main game controls. Similar to the Zelda dungeons, there are no elaborate mini-games or perspective changes. Maybe you could make an exception for the hilarious Arena section, but everything else in Another World is very lean and focused. The game squeezes out plenty of drama and action from just four direction keys and one button.

What I didn't particularly like were the chaotic gunfights and chase sequences where beams were flying all over the place. You could never be certain which ones were actually lethal and which ones were there just for the atmosphere. There also seemed to be a bit of randomness included, I got fried twice out of fifteen-or-so tries at the last save point when running away from the escape pod for no apparent reason.

But overall, ignoring the nuts'n'bolts, the ability of Another World to evoke feelings in the player is remarkable. Loneliness, panic, relief, curiosity, disgust, despair, joy. The way these are experienced is fundamentally different from non-participatory media.
davidcarlton

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Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 548
Reply with quote  #25 
I posted on my blog about Another World; not a lot of new stuff there that I didn't talk about here, though.
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