davidcarlton
Moderator
Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 548
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| Posted 10/04/09 at 11:29 PM | Reply with quote #1 |
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| In many of the nomination rounds, including the most recent one, several people have suggested playing Another World / Out of This World. We (the moderators) didn't include it in the short list because we weren't convinced that a group playthrough of the game would work well, but given the amount of support that it's been given, we thought we should give its supporters a chance to convice us otherwise.
Basically, what we'd like to understand is which of the following three hold:
* Is it unsuitable for a VGC playthrough?
* Is it unsuitable for a regular VGC playthrough, but suitable for a playthrough with special rules of some sort? If the latter, what would be good candidate rules?
* Is it suitable for a normal VGC playthrough?
Here are some quotes from the game 8 thread:
Quote: I just want to observe that Out of this World is not a game for "novices". It is a game for hardcore masochists, and without a guide and emulator state saves, I would've probably never made it through (which took about a week).
Quote: As much as I love Another World, I find it difficult to recommend. It's just too easy to play for a long time in certain sections of the game, only to realise you've made it impossible for yourself to progress any further. As such you can only really play it with a walkthrough (or a lot of restarts) these days. Plus, some of the platform elements are really tricky. It's a shame..
Other people largely disagreed with the complaint about being impossible to progress further, but brought up the length as a potential problem. Specifially, ILR said: Quote: Yes, it is a puzzle game, and quite tricky at times. But the first time I played it through was five years ago as a relative n00b and didn't need a walkthrough. It was such a captivating experience that the whole game took only two evenings to finish.
Quote: Out of this World is an amazing game, but very very short. I have played it through dozens of times and can beat it in under a half hour. I'm pretty sure that even a novice could handle it in one sitting if not then two\three days tops.
So, basically, it sounds to me like it has the potential of being the worst of both worlds: hard enough to drive away many people, and short enough that those who stick with it will be done within a week. (I looked at GameFAQs, and the length of the FAQs there supported the latter concern.) The Abe's Oddyssee playthrough was our least successful one so far; the comments here make it sound like an Another World playthrough could be noticeably worse.
But I've never played the game, and many people have proposed it. To those of you who have played it: are my concerns off base, or can they be managed somehow? Which of the three possibilities that I listed at the top is most likely? |
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ILR
Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 140
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| Posted 10/05/09 at 04:03 AM | Reply with quote #2 |
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I always envisioned Another World to be a one-week project. That's part of its appeal: unrelenting focus, no overblown filler.
I'm still convinced that my experience with this game was not anomalous, and that Another World can and will be enjoyed by new generations of gamers even now when it's almost 20 years after its release. There was one occasion where I got truly stuck, but like in all great puzzle games, the solution clicked into place after a good night's sleep.
In a way, I like to think of the game as the Braid of its time. What's more, you could also object to playing Braid communally because many people will be put off by the harder puzzles while the ones who aren't will finish the game in a few nights.
What we're looking at here is a game that's not necessarily an ideal fit for a communal playthrough and discussion, but has a wealth of other intrinsic and extrinsic merits (the unique aesthethics, auteurship, the focus, the FOCUS, showing-not-telling) to stimulate discussion. I started writing a longer list but then realized that they're all practically duplicated in the first few paragraphs of the ABDN review anyway.
To answer the question, I consider Another World to be suitable for a normal VGC playthrough. Even though it is an occasionally frustrating test of both wits and dexterity, it is above all a "games' game", conveying its statement in a manner that is impossible to other forms of art. To add one more analogy, Another World in VGC is like Birth of a Nation in a film club. The latter is excruciatingly long and usually discomforting for the modern viewer for its subject matter, but utterly irreplaceable viewing for a film buff, warts and all.
The only real red flag is if there is a glaring design error that practically makes your game impossible to progress (this must be in the multi-screen water stream puzzle?)
Oh, and I still haven't heard about this game's availability. If it's in distribution limbo, then all of this is next to irrelevant.
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Octarine
Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 32
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| Posted 10/05/09 at 09:41 AM | Reply with quote #3 |
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Just regarding availability, you can buy the 15th anniversary editon online through the official site here. Highly recommended, it looks great and runs on vista.
[edit]
It seems I should have checked better. Another World is no longer available through that link, but you can get it in other places, like Amazon.co.uk.
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ILR
Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 140
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| Posted 10/07/09 at 06:23 AM | Reply with quote #4 |
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I tried the link from the Anotherworld.fr site once again and succeeded in downloading and activating the game. The amazon offer is cheaper, though.
I've now played the game to the end, which took me about 2 - 2,5 hours. A complete first-timer could probably expect to finish the game in 4 hours or so.
It was an enjoyable experience. You will die a lot, but the game is so slick and generous with the restart points that you'll be usually continuing from only a few steps back before you stumbled to your death. It has some of the same Dragon's Lairisms that Abe's Oddysee was castigated for but I never found the trial-error stuff that infuriating here.
The restore points are also usually arranged so that they give you a bit of a clue on where to go next in the more expansive areas, a nice touch. This recent hi-res version also lets you continue playing from any save spot you've passed so far, so even if the rumor about the possibility of getting the game into an impossible-to-progress state is true, you should be able to go back a few save spots and retry.
So, my optimism remains unwavering. I have played the game for the first time at a relatively modern era (2003 or so) and tried the re-release version later on, and found both experiences pleasant. This would be an excellent one week's bite-sized snack for VGC.
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davidcarlton
Moderator
Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 548
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| Posted 10/09/09 at 01:09 AM | Reply with quote #5 |
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| Thanks for the info, that's very useful. I'm definitely getting a good picture of the length of the game.
I guess what I'm now most wondering about is how the experience of playing it matches the experience playing Abe's Oddyssee. ILR, you didn't play Abe's with us, did you? (I'm not seeing you in the forums.) Have you played Abe's recently outside of the VGC? That game's supporters admitted that you'd die a lot but said that that didn't hurt the gameplay, which a lot of us ended up disagreeing with. Though there's one key difference in that Abe's main supporter later admitted, if I'm remembering correctly, that the game was significantly more annoying than he'd remembered, while your memories of Another World are obviously quite fresh!
Is there anybody else who would like to chime in with their experiences playing Another World, especially with a view as to how it would compare to Abe's? |
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Octarine
Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 32
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| Posted 10/09/09 at 05:14 AM | Reply with quote #6 |
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I played both Another World and Abe's Oddysee a few months ago and I can say, for me, they were quite different experiences. Yes, you die a lot in both. But while Another World had it's annoying parts (like the poisonous fumes on level 3, though it has been simplified in the anniversary editing) it never gave the tedious, grinding gameplay feel I had while playing Abe's.
Maybe it's the nostalgic value. A game I played with my best friend at the age of 11 has a bit more appeal than a ten-year-old game I played as an "experienced" gamer. But there's more. Another World draws you into its story. It's was a sort of interactive movie before "interactive movie" became an empty marketing gimmick. It made me grit me teeth and try the water puzzle for the tenth time because I want to see what's at the other side of the pool. While dying on Abe's only because I need to get to the other side of the screen got more and more annoying until I gave up.
So yes, I think Another World is suitable for a (special, short) VGC playthough, and I hope it will be more enjoyable than Abe's Oddysee.
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davidcarlton
Moderator
Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 548
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| Posted 10/10/09 at 08:55 PM | Reply with quote #7 |
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| Thanks, that's also extremely helpful. |
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ILR
Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 140
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| Posted 10/12/09 at 03:28 AM | Reply with quote #8 |
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I did play Abe's Oddysee, I just did it two months after the rest of you!  The last few messages in that forum are likely still mine.
So yes, I do have a relatively fresh recollection of both games. My experiences with Abe did not differ too much from the general concensus, although even later on I found the game to be an enjoyable netbook game for longer train trips.
What Another World does better is that there is a lot more continuity in the game. Instead of just a compilation of arbitrary puzzles, you tend to get invested in the overreaching story and genuinely _want_ to see the main character make it out of his predicament alive. To aid the experience, the save points are also much more tightly spaced and you generally need to only activate one part of a larger puzzle or pass a single dramatic point (gunfight, jumping sequence) in them.
At its core, Another World may be too similar to Abe, and you could reasonably claim that it shares a certain hard-to-pinpoint 'frenchness' with Beyond Good & Evil. I know I would. This may be a concern for some, for example I felt System Shock to be a bit too similar to Deus Ex and therefore left it at the last place in the recent voting. But Another World only takes one week and can be acquired quickly. So there's very little overhead in getting, playing, and finishing the game, which makes a slight chance of failure much more tolerable.
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MoriartyL
Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 295
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| Posted 10/12/09 at 02:36 PM | Reply with quote #9 |
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Ooh, if we play Another World, we could call it "Game 8.5"! Could we could we could we?
__________________
My computer games (for Windows and Linux):
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oozo
Moderator - Another World
Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 95
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| Posted 01/12/10 at 06:14 PM | Reply with quote #10 |
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Just played and finished it for the first time, in the the 15th anniversary edition - took me around 3.5 hours.
Yes, I died a lot (especially in one place, where even walkthroughs only can provide you with following highly unpractical piece of good advice: "It's tough, but you have to do it.") But it was all reasonable and really not that much of a grinder.
Still would second the idea of doing a quick playthrough - it can't be game 8.5 anymore, but maybe 9.5?
Yes, yes, yes?
PS On topic: Good to see that the nice interview with Chahi/Mechner was translated for all the people not so fluent in the language of lovers and frogeaters: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4239/the_auteur_forum_mechner_and_.php |
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oozo
Moderator - Another World
Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 95
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| Posted 03/19/10 at 07:58 AM | Reply with quote #11 |
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Sorry for the double-shift, but since Michael already twittered about it being on sale on GoG, I'd like to re-animate the thought here as well:
How about a VGC-playthrough of it?
It won't take away too much of your time, it's highly worth it, and the anniversary edition is pretty forgiving, too...
How about it?
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brainygamer
Moderator
Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 524
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| Posted 03/19/10 at 10:07 AM | Reply with quote #12 |
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I'm all for it, oozo. The added value of the 15th Anniversary Edition on GOG - 20-minute "making of" video, technical handbook, development diary, soundtrack remix by original composer JF Freitas - makes playing Another World with the VGC a no-brainer to me. I'll pitch it to my co-moderators, and we'll see if we can get the ball rolling.
Thanks for keeping this game in our sights.
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Michael Abbott
Brainy Gamer blog and podcast |
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davidcarlton
Moderator
Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 548
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| Posted 03/19/10 at 11:17 PM | Reply with quote #13 |
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| Yeah, sounds good to me. Just bear in mind with us for a week or so while we get some behind-the-scenes stuff in order, and then I'd be more than happy for us to talk about it as a candidate for our next game! |
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GunBlade
Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 5
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| Posted 04/19/10 at 06:09 PM | Reply with quote #14 |
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The fact that it's a very short game makes it perfect for newcomers I think...
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brainygamer
Moderator
Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 524
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| Posted 04/19/10 at 06:23 PM | Reply with quote #15 |
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I'm all for Another World. The recent GOG release makes it easy to obtain, and it's unquestionably an historically significant game.
If someone wishes to champion, I'm in.
__________________
Michael Abbott
Brainy Gamer blog and podcast |
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eurotransient
Registered: 08/22/08
Posts: 5
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| Posted 04/19/10 at 09:13 PM | Reply with quote #16 |
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| I don't really trust my attention span enough to volunteer champion duties yet, but I'd be keen to take part in a playthrough with my fellow VGCers. I just played an hour or so last week and was quite struck by how nicely the stylized look holds up. It's rare to see 3D graphics age well, but I think AW's do. |
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AndrewArmstrong
Moderator - Psychonauts
Registered: 07/22/08
Posts: 365
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| Posted 04/21/10 at 02:58 PM | Reply with quote #17 |
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Not for me (as I've said elsewhere) since it's platform/puzzle, and all told - the endorsements of "utterly hard" doesn't really help.
I'd be interested in reading what people said, those who hadn't played it before, since I'd be an observer nothing more and thankfully out of any frustrations it could build in me 
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Andrew |
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oozo
Moderator - Another World
Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 95
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| Posted 04/22/10 at 05:26 AM | Reply with quote #18 |
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I'd certainly join the play-through and discussion - don't know about championing it, though... seems like there could be another play-through of "Psychonauts", which I'd like to join as well. Not even talking about my recent attempts of getting into "Sleep Is Death"... so it might all pile up a bit too much.
Any other volunteers? (I mean, if absolutely nobody is willing to do it, I'll think about doing so again - but I'd much rather join as a normal player.)
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LeFisk
Registered: 02/09/09
Posts: 3
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| Posted 04/22/10 at 08:57 AM | Reply with quote #19 |
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I just wanted to make a suggestion concerning the possible play-through of Another World. Why not lump it together with Delphine Software's "spiritual" sequel Flashback?
Playing through both Another World and Flashback would maybe lend it self to some interesting comparisons between two, as they where developed in the same genre, by the same developer only one year apart from each other,using much of the same development technology etc.
As both are short games that could be played to relatively fast, it could give some nice diversion from the usual way VGC approaches games one by one
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eurotransient
Registered: 08/22/08
Posts: 5
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| Posted 04/22/10 at 09:24 AM | Reply with quote #20 |
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Flashback is one of my absolute favorite games ever, but it's remarkably difficult to find for the most part. I know there's a wonky looking iPhone port, but it hasn't come to Virtual Console or something, has it?
That said, I've still got my old Genesis copy kicking around somewhere. I couldn't bear to part with it. Now, whether or not it works... that's another question |
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