Bobbicus
Moderator
Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 244
|
| Posted 10/24/10 at 12:39 PM | Reply with quote #26 |
|
Quote: Originally Posted by rowan
Uh, that was sarcasm. Caps is cruise control for sarcasm.
And here I thought blue was code for sarcasm.
__________________
http://lovelanguagevideogames.blogspot.com/ |
| Loading... | |
Jonathan
Registered: 10/22/10
Posts: 25
|
| Posted 10/25/10 at 01:03 PM | Reply with quote #27 |
|
| I tend to play the game as a thief for the simple reason that they level up the fastest. A level 10 thief, for example, requires only 160,000 XP compared to a mage's 250,000 and the fighter's whopping 500,000. By the end of the game, you will have gotten scads of experience, but the big experience event involving that one thing near the end game comes too late (in my opinion) to be really useful, from a levelling perspective.
I may be going mage this time, but I was just shy of level 7 with the starting fighter build when I finally reached the place where I could change classes. I've already had a number of encounters where I wish that I had put points into Dex instead of going all Int-Wis-Cha.
SPOILER (sorry if they're not supposed to go here)
On the other hand, going with a high Intelligence and Wisdom meant that I was able to unlock and interpret the entirety of Zerthimon's teachings with Dak'kon immediately after becoming a mage and with the help of only the inexpensive +1 Int tattoo. Thus, Dak'kon achieved the related bonuses relatively early in the game, which makes combat much easier in the early going. |
| Loading... | |
AmishNinja
Registered: 10/22/10
Posts: 6
|
| Posted 10/26/10 at 10:17 AM | Reply with quote #28 |
|
| I'm loving mage so far. Level 7 and I have all of Dak'kon's spells along with a good handful of the store-bought ones. With tats I'm at... I think 21 int, 20 wis, and 14 con. Ax of Torment is disappointing, with Tears of Elysium only slightly less disappointing. But all of the level 1 spells rock socks.
Combat seems really easy right now. I'm near the point where I hit lower ward (I think). |
| Loading... | |
Rowan
Moderator
Registered: 04/23/10
Posts: 305
|
| Posted 10/30/10 at 03:11 PM | Reply with quote #29 |
|
My least favorite thing about D&D rules is alignment. It's never made sense to me. "Good" and "Evil" are extremely problematic on their own, but then the only way that they really make sense is to describe them as selfless and selfish...which has far too much overlap with "Lawful" and "Chaotic." Most D&D video games virtually ignore alignment except in the most practical sense. You pick it when you roll the character, and that's mostly it.
Torment's greatest achievement may be that it doesn't just make alignment relevant, it makes alignment an interesting and integral part of the gameplay experience. Having alignment determined by actions instead of a silly choice at the start of the game is so obvious that it annoys me that other D&D games don't do it. But more impressively, it manages to create a world where Good, Evil, Law, and Chaos actually seem to exist. The choices that lead to your alignment changing are not just "Do I want to be good or evil in this playthrough?" but actually subtle things in how you play the game. Virtually every conversation and quest has something which can alter your alignment, even if only slightly. You may never notice it. But it's there.
|
| Loading... | |
exceedthesky
Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 3
|
| Posted 12/01/10 at 11:02 AM | Reply with quote #30 |
|
Rowan, I agree: the way that Planescape integrates alignment into gameplay really enhances the player experience. In a digital medium, where it would be easy to permanently alter gameplay depending on a "silly choice" during character building, Planescape chooses instead to make alignment a very subtle result of gameplay. Planescape seems to make alignment a characteristic that you control rather than a characteristic that controls you.
However, it is interesting to note that alignment plays a different role in non-digital mediums. In traditional table-top D&D, alignment is frequently used by players to give them a better sense of their character. Players try to step into the shoes of a fictional person who (in most cases) has backstory, memory, and a fully developed personality. Having a concrete alignment guides their choices, and helps them make decisions as their character would. So, choosing an alignment at the beginning (and letting that alignment control you during gameplay) makes sense.
Basically, I believe that picking player alignment at the beginning of the game works better for traditional D&D than it would have for Planescape for these two reasons:
1) If digital games (like Planescape) used start-game alignments, they would probably use them to permanently alter gameplay, narrowing possibilities and limiting player experience. On the other hand, traditional D&D can get away with start-game alignments because the player is free to change at any point he or she chooses. This is character development and adds to player experience.
2) In many D&D games, players are stepping into the life of a fully developed character; it makes sense that their alignment would exist before the game begins. However, you begin Planescape as the Nameless One, with no memory; it makes sense that you would make your own alignment through gameplay.
Note that it is still completely possible for a player of Planescape to "choose" an alignment at the beginning of the game, in the same sense that a D&D player picks an alignment: as a goal to remain true to while playing the type of Nameless One that one want to play.
|
| Loading... | |
makewayforducklings
Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 16
|
| Posted 12/02/10 at 01:56 AM | Reply with quote #31 |
|
(Going on a tangent from that...it's interesting that without memories, TNO wakes up being able to be good, evil, chaotic, or lawful. The fact that he's a blank slate raises interesting questions about his nature, or maybe human nature.)
__________________
Decide what happens next: http://adventurecow.com
"I think you need to have at least 16 HP in order to survive the eye replacement. That's the number I've heard." -Jonathan |
| Loading... | |
Rowan
Moderator
Registered: 04/23/10
Posts: 305
|
| Posted 12/03/10 at 09:37 PM | Reply with quote #32 |
|
You raise a very valid point about the nature of tabletop games versus computer games. Character comes first in tabletop, where game comes first in video games. Alignment does make more sense in that case.
I still don't like the lawful/chaotic and good/evil axes, except in Torment, but they appear pretty well-set.
|
| Loading... | |
Jonathan
Registered: 10/22/10
Posts: 25
|
| Posted 12/04/10 at 03:06 AM | Reply with quote #33 |
|
| I read this article on alignment just the other day. I think that it beautifully summarizes the nature of the beast. |
| Loading... | |
Bobbicus
Moderator
Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 244
|
| Posted 01/16/11 at 11:42 PM | Reply with quote #34 |
|
It's a problem that happens when people take abstract guidelines and adhere to them too carefully. The same sort of thing happens with hitpoints - don't pay to much attention to it, and it works. Once you get into situations where a man takes three arrows to the face and keeps merrily hacking away, it gets sort of silly.
__________________
http://lovelanguagevideogames.blogspot.com/ |
| Loading... | |
