Bobbicus
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Registered: 06/09/10
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Rowan
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| Posted 10/02/10 at 04:22 PM | Reply with quote #2 |
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"Is this the game you want?" I feel like this section is the designers asking the players that question. The super new sword and the lack of the Dagger means that combat has turned completely around, with the Prince slaughtering waves of enemies with single hits. Meanwhile, the platforming is totally different, without the Dagger to cushion mistakes.
I have to answer with a pretty emphatic no. Say what you will about the combat, and y'all certainly have, but turning into a button-mashing festival doesn't improve things at all. It needs to be a challenge.
Likewise, the tiny flaws in the game which are easily papered over by having the Dagger to rewind when, say, the camera switches around or doesn't show the best path quickly enough are much more blatant. Right after the first save point, you climb up to a bar that you swing on. You're obviously supposed to jump across to another tower, but it's extremely difficult to actually see where the bar you're supposed to land on is. So, trial and error - but that's rendered incredibly annoying by the lack of the Dagger.
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Bobbicus
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| Posted 10/02/10 at 09:27 PM | Reply with quote #3 |
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It's amazing how you come to expect the dagger to always be there, and how weird it feels that you can't simply rewind time. It's jarring, uncomfortable, and feels out of place - which matches perfectly with the story at this point in the game.
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Rowan
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| Posted 10/02/10 at 09:52 PM | Reply with quote #4 |
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I think that would be fine it it weren't for the death from perspective changes. When you die because the camera isn't working right - no fun.
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Atomicvege
Registered: 07/15/08
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| Posted 10/02/10 at 11:28 PM | Reply with quote #5 |
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I remember how amazing this was when i first played it. You have to scale this very imposing fortress pulling off the craziest moves and yet you can't stuff up once.
I agree with something Tycho from Penny Arcade said. The vizier is not the final boss in this game, the final boss is scaling the castle.
But yeah, there were a lot of times in this playthrough i died because of silly mistakes and i had to redo many sections (especially the first bit with the mirror puzzle)
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Rowan
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| Posted 10/03/10 at 02:00 AM | Reply with quote #6 |
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I get that Tycho's point was that the real challenge is in the last level, but it's something that seems to have become a talking point about the game. And no, the last boss is not climbing the castle, it really is the vizier. There are hundreds of games where the final level is more interesting than the final boss. Why is this one different?
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Atomicvege
Registered: 07/15/08
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| Posted 10/03/10 at 02:59 AM | Reply with quote #7 |
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If anything it's because the castle had elements of danger and grand scope while the Vizier fight had neither (at least for me).
I liken it to RPGs where the final boss is weak and boring, but the fight before the final boss is the epic crazy one.
i mean i do see your point. In Mario 64 for example, i found the Bowser levels more fun than the Bowser fights, but at least the Bowser fights were still pretty epic.
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Rowan
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| Posted 10/03/10 at 05:40 AM | Reply with quote #8 |
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Look at the original Super Mario Brothers - the Bowser fights were over in an instant, but people don't say "oh, the final level is the boss!" Or Half-Life.
I mean, Tycho's original point, as I recall, was that people were saying that Sands of Time was mostly a great game, but disappointing in the end due to the boss fight. He was trying to say that no, the entire game was great and not disappointing, regardless of the boss fight. And if you wanted that feeling of accomplishment from conquering the toughest thing the game could throw at you, then consider climbing the tower the "boss fight" for those purposes.
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Atomicvege
Registered: 07/15/08
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| Posted 10/03/10 at 10:30 AM | Reply with quote #9 |
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Of course people don't say things like that about those games because not all games are like this, but what is a boss fight? It's an encounter that's meant to test all your skills you've learned up to that point traditionally. The final Vizier might as well been a room full of sand guards. The real test was climbing the castle.
Now this is just mechanically. Storywise the Vizier had to be the final encounter and it works, but gameplay wise, it feels like a coda compared to scaling the tower.
I couldn't find Tycho's comments so can't refute your perspective of what he meant. In that context it's a valid point. The main reason i've clicked with the idea of the castle being the final boss is because having a boss be something other than a final enemy is a refreshing and fascinating idea for gaming, and especially in this title, it's easy to make that argument.
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Rowan
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| Posted 10/03/10 at 02:26 PM | Reply with quote #10 |
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Games without bosses are refreshing? You might be right!
Also, I recall it being Gabe and not Tycho who was making the point about the castle being the boss.
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Atomicvege
Registered: 07/15/08
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| Posted 10/03/10 at 07:44 PM | Reply with quote #11 |
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heh, nice article. There are some good examples of the final boss motif being played against there (Warcraft 3 definitely left an impression when i completed the human campaign). I think this bears further investigation 
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Rowan
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| Posted 10/03/10 at 08:10 PM | Reply with quote #12 |
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Well, we're going to be doing Torment soon, which definitely has an odd take on the concept.
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