davidcarlton
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Registered: 07/15/08
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| Posted 01/21/09 at 12:01 AM | Reply with quote #1 |
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| Please post your thoughts on the slaughterhouse section of the game here. |
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catfishmaw
Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 8
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| Posted 02/06/09 at 06:12 PM | Reply with quote #2 |
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I must say, I am thoroughly unimpressed by the heavy recycling of the stealth tactics. Avoiding Alpha Sections guards was all well and good in the factory, but by this point I'm tired of it. I understand that it exists to serve the narrative in that Jade is sneaking around in places where she's not wanted, but it's really become very dull very quickly. The same is true of the knock-enemy-into-electric field trick, which seemed cool at first but already seems tired after just a few hours of play.
I find myself thinking that I'm rather glad that the game is so short, so that I won't have to deal with these tropes any longer, and I can't help thinking that that's a very negative feeling on my part. Of course, I still feel very positively about the game as a whole, but the Slaughterhouse simply feels like a grind in a way that much of the rest of the game did not.
I think that this is the part of the game, too, in which the Zelda DNA which BG&E draws on is most evident. It's especially similar to Wind Waker - it seems to emulate the formulae: avoid guards, exploit the weaknesses of enemies, complete increasingly complex puzzles using new-found abilities. Hell, even the Mammago's-fuelled upgrade system mirrors the steady item upgrades Link receives in each Zelda game.
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Amoveo
Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 68
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| Posted 02/06/09 at 06:41 PM | Reply with quote #3 |
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How can you get tired of such a core game mechanic? It seems like getting tired of shooting things while playing a first person shooter. Also didn't you only zap guards twice? I don't remember doing it more often than that which hardly seems overused.
I agree with you about the Zelda inspiration here. The entire slaughterhouse feels very much like a Zelda level, but I consider that a great thing. Temple and dungeons in Zelda always include just enough backtracking and overall great level design.
What I am tiring of are the hovercraft sequences. I don't really like driving the thing and I had to pilot it all over the slaughterhouse.
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Kimari
Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 43
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| Posted 02/06/09 at 07:03 PM | Reply with quote #4 |
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I think that overall, the stealth mechanics are the worst part of beyond good & evil. You get tired of them very quickly but the game forces you to endure this activity for the rest of the game (except in the moon, but that's a whole other topic). There are a few changes here and there but ultimately you will be doing the exact same things over and over again. The sometimes clever (and sometimes sadistic) level design can't hold such a bland mechanic for much time either.
All in all, I think that if the game had something like 3 or 4 dungeons less it would have been a more enjoyable experience. I wanted to have more things to do in the lighthouse, I wanted to spend more time with Pey´j, I wanted to get to know the kids living with Jade, I wanted to have some more meaningful interaction with the dog (it was really fun chasing him).
Is it such a crime to develop a game that's not mainly about conflict?
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Amoveo
Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 68
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| Posted 02/06/09 at 07:59 PM | Reply with quote #5 |
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You sound like you want Beyond Good and Evil to be the Sims, which it simply isn't. It is perfectly fine to want a game that doesn't have conflict, but that isn't this game. Your ideal game is virtually completely unrelated to this one. You can't say that you want Beyond Good and Evil to have 3 or 4 fewer dungeons and no stealth because that game wouldn't be similar to Beyond Good and Evil at all. Also aren't there only 4 dungeons?
What would you keep from Beyond Good and Evil in your pacifistic stealth-free game?
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Kimari
Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 43
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| Posted 02/06/09 at 08:52 PM | Reply with quote #6 |
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The sims? o.o
I got a little bit too carried away, yes. I guess that what I was trying to say is that the stealth parts felt stretched and the peaceful parts felt rushed (in the sense of time the player spends on that part, not production).
For me, the stealth mechanics feel underdeveloped considering how much use they get. They are not tight, the view detection is wonky at times and the punishments are too unforgiving in certain cases (yes, you respawn inmediately, which is awesome, but instant death by laser to the face for being spotted is not).
Oh, and about the dungeons: The first one is perfect as it is, and the second one is alright. The third one is definitely stretching things and the fourth one got under my nerves.
When I'm in stealth mode the least I want to do is explore the place, I want to be done with this so I can get back to photographing animals, talking to random people, racing and collecting pearls. Or in other words, I want to blow through the generic and bland stuff, so I continue to explore the charms of the game.
In retrospective I enjoyed Beyond Good & Evil much more when I had Pey'j by my side (sorry Double H, don't take it too hard on yourself, after all, you are competing with a pig, you never had a chance). That and doing the "sidequests" and other activities such as racing and the disks minigame.
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catfishmaw
Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 8
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| Posted 02/06/09 at 09:28 PM | Reply with quote #7 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by Amoveo
How can you get tired of such a core game mechanic? It seems like getting tired of shooting things while playing a first person shooter.
Which I routinely do. Just because a game mechanic is of core importance doesn't make it necessarily interesting.
Quote: Originally Posted by Amoveo
Temple and dungeons in Zelda always include just enough backtracking and overall great level design.
I actually think that some of the level design in BG&E is quite bad, especially on the Slaughterhouse level. There have been a few occasions when I've not known whether the way I'm going will allow me to revisit some of the locations I've neglected, and often a sense that there is no clear way forward.
Quote: Originally Posted by Kimari
Is it such a crime to develop a game that's not mainly about conflict?
I'm with you. I'd welcome some more time with Pey'j, and some more character development in other places. The game's opening seems to suggest that it's a character piece, but we spend most of the game concerned with action.
By far, my favourite part of the game is the photography, but the first dungeon also stands out. It just seems to decline significantly from around three hours in.
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Amoveo
Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 68
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| Posted 02/07/09 at 04:08 AM | Reply with quote #8 |
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Quote: For me, the stealth mechanics feel underdeveloped considering how much use they get. They are not tight, the view detection is wonky at times and the punishments are too unforgiving in certain cases (yes, you respawn inmediately, which is awesome, but instant death by laser to the face for being spotted is not).
I'm glad you brought this up since I mentioned while I was playing through the factory that I thought it was too easy and honestly I am very pleased to be shot in the face by a laser (as odd as that sounds.) In the factory I would get caught, run back and hide in a hole, and repeat sometimes multiple times. This, to me at least, made the guards seem like complete retards and the scenario didn't feel threatening at all. With the introduction of lasers being caught was much more threatening, but with instant respawns it wasn't frustrating. So I really appreciated the laser turrets.
Quote: When I'm in stealth mode the least I want to do is explore the place, I want to be done with this so I can get back to photographing animals, talking to random people, racing and collecting pearls. Or in other words, I want to blow through the generic and bland stuff, so I continue to explore the charms of the game.
Ok now I'm starting to understand what you mean. I've always tried to approach games playing to their strengths. When I played Mirror's Edge the combat was shit but I didn't really mind it that much because the game was about free-running. So I focused on the centrail aspect of the game. Usually I find that when the core mechanic doesn't work the rest of the game falls apart, but I guess you guys don't agree.
Also I enjoy the photography segments, but I always feel like I'm wasting time photographing fish. I mean humans are being kidnapped tortured and shipped to the moon and I'm taking pictures of wild animals? I could also never play a game like Africa where the whole game is photographing animals, it just doesn't seem compelling to me.
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catfishmaw
Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 8
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| Posted 02/07/09 at 06:36 AM | Reply with quote #9 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by Amoveo
I could also never play a game like Africa where the whole game is photographing animals, it just doesn't seem compelling to me.
Did you never play Pokémon Snap? It's marvellous. You'd be surprised.
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MoriartyL
Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 295
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| Posted 02/07/09 at 01:26 PM | Reply with quote #10 |
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I don't think the "core" of the game is any particular game mechanic: rather, it is the story made up of how all the different game mechanics come together. Getting into trouble is a huge part of the plot, so it only makes sense for stealth to be a huge part of the gameplay. The lighthouse kids, as prominent as they are at first, are a tiny part of the plot, and it doesn't make much sense to spend so much time with them.
Now, if the kids were made to be more of a part of the story that would be really nice. (Economy of storytelling and all that.) It would be nice to have some sort of gameplay with the kids change over time (like a minigame which gets progressively easier) to show how the war is traumatizing them, or something like that. But seeing as how that's not the angle this story is taking, criticizing them for not putting in more gameplay with the kids is missing the point a little.
Granted, a story which focused on more and more varied characters and how they all fit together into a dramatic story would be awesome. And while this game is clearly aspiring to be that, it's obviously coming from the Zelda tradition and RPG-questy stuff. Paradigm shifts don't come overnight. The very fact that this is about a conspiracy and characters rather than a giant monster and weapons says that this is a huge step toward more interesting storytelling (of this type).
And along those same lines of thought, making this more into a game about photography wouldn't be right either. That's just trading in the Zelda model for the Pokemon Snap model. Formulas and traditions aren't what's needed from a game like this, a game of gameplays about a story. What's needed is for the creator to listen to what the story needs, especially if it seems unconventional, and let the player do that.
Of course, this game -more than any other!- exemplifies exactly what I'm talking about. This is a game which throws in every type of gameplay it thinks the story needs, and only when it thinks the story needs it! Of course it could have done more. (And the sequel could do more.) But this is a new art form, and Beyond Good & Evil is its pioneer. Hopefully the history books will remember this game fondly as the work which paved the way for even greater works. For now, let's just appreciate that there really isn't anything else even close to its level of interactive storytelling (of this type).
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Kimari
Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 43
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| Posted 02/07/09 at 02:29 PM | Reply with quote #11 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by MoriartyL
For now, let's just appreciate that there really isn't anything else even close to its level of interactive storytelling (of this type).
I guess you are right and we should be more thankful, but as time passes I'm getting more and more impatient about it. After all, BGE didn't come out yesterday, and we haven't seen anything like it in all these years. Don't you think it's time we demand these types of games? I mean, for the looks of it, there's certainly an audience waiting.
There are some glimmers of hope from eastern Europe though, so at least we can expect some really creative games in the near future. Grim, dark, but creative games.
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sharc
Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 81
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| Posted 02/09/09 at 03:09 PM | Reply with quote #12 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by kimari
I guess that what I was trying to say is that the stealth parts felt stretched and the peaceful parts felt rushed (in the sense of time the player spends on that part, not production). For me, the stealth mechanics feel underdeveloped considering how much use they get. They are not tight, the view detection is wonky at times and the punishments are too unforgiving in certain cases (yes, you respawn inmediately, which is awesome, but instant death by laser to the face for being spotted is not).
perhaps your problem with the stealth sections is the same as mine: that these are still shallow, gamey challenge rooms that aren't really integrated into the game as a whole. instead of a situation where stealth is a learned skill that could be called on at any time, we have all the segments involving it compartmentalized in little areas where five dudes march back and forth through a room of no discernable importance, turning at mechanically random intrevals.
i'm kind of torn on the auto-kill penalty for failed sneaking and the instant respawn afterwards. i don't know if it's either an attempt to inject an appearance of difficulty in to the game, or a band-aid to deal with the fact that you can get yourself into inescapable situations. either way it feels like a speed bump, a minor inconveinence that's there for a show of token resistance instead of trying to accomplish anything. a waste of my time, if you will.
Quote: Originally Posted by moriartyl
But this is a new art form, and Beyond Good & Evil is its pioneer. Hopefully the history books will remember this game fondly as the work which paved the way for even greater works. For now, let's just appreciate that there really isn't anything else even close to its level of interactive storytelling (of this type).
saying this about a game that drops its big revelation in a minute-long infodump played over a cutscene of a flying car ride just doesn't mesh with me, man.  i look at beyond good and evil and i see exactly the same kind of patchwork narrative that always results from treating games as a movie with interactive parts; all big events in the story happen in static cutscenes, and the actual gameplay either doesn't convey anything important or reiterates information established in the non-game part.
hell, jade's investigations as a reporter are barely relevant to the story, because everyone straight-up tells you what's going on an hour into the game. you're only there to document the 100% accurate information that hans already has, and every time the game drops what should be shocking or surprising information it has so little power because you knew all that before you ever got to see it.
the only real advance i see here is that somewhere down the line ubisoft realized that you can use in-game voice acted conversations without having to stop the player, and even this is mostly restricted to flavor dialogue and chatter. anything important is still a cutscene, because gosh, that's how movies do it and a game being a game just isn't dramatic enough.
the prime difference between most games and beyond good and evil is that the latter uses all this tired junk to tell a story i actually want to listen to.
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MoriartyL
Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 295
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| Posted 02/09/09 at 06:55 PM | Reply with quote #13 |
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I agree that the storytelling would be more effective without cutscenes, so while I think you're overlooking the considerable accomplishments made between the cutscenes I can't argue with anything you're saying.
(I haven't had time to play through the section yet.)
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sharc
Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 81
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| Posted 02/09/09 at 06:59 PM | Reply with quote #14 |
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i'm not saying every last cutscene must be excised from the game so much as i'm just disappointed that everything that you actually discover firsthand in the game has been previously revealed to you by a panel of talking heads in the driest and least exciting manner possible. if we could reverse the order there - like, maybe jade herself learns some horrible new thing and then reports back to the talking heads for a cutscene where everyone freaks out over the full extent of the enemy's plans - well, that would be just dandy.
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TheGameCritique
Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 45
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| Posted 02/10/09 at 12:48 AM | Reply with quote #15 |
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I have never understood the ire that cutscenes garner. I can understand exasperation of Metal Gear Solid length cutscenes, but for simple pieces like those found in Beyond Good and Evil I just don't understand. People claim that they want to be able to play the game through without having to stop ever, and yet after tense moments they relax by putting the controller down. In games that use them well they are a part of the game's pacing. Beyond Good and Evil is one of those games.
I do agree that it didn't reveal information in way meant to inspire mystery and did give away everything away far too early. The story they're telling, however, isn't a mystery, but a caper. It's not about who is the bad guy, but how to prove it.
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Freezair
Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 40
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| Posted 02/10/09 at 04:23 AM | Reply with quote #16 |
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I agree on the "not understanding the cutscene disdain" bit. I think there's a sweet spot when it comes to cutscenes--just short enough gives you a moment to relax, and can provide some much-needed exposition. Make them too long, however, and the player starts to get antsy. I never felt that antsiness at any point in this game--the cutscenes felt just the right length to me, and did their job of exposition well. (And twice, they managed to make me tear up. But we're not quite there yet.) Most JRPGs go over, and my goodness, Metal Gear Solid--but under the 5-minute mark? I'm completely fine with that. (Unless it's "5 minutes of cutscenes, 3 minutes of gameplay, 5 more minutes of cutscenes..." But this game doesn't have THAT problem either.)
I like that word. "Caper." It's both an accurate descriptor and fun to say.  I would also argue that this game isn't as about the story as everyone claims it is--or, more accurately, that the story here isn't about government corruption or journalism, but about how our trio of protagonists act around one another, what they struggle through, and how they grow and evolve. I think the themes here are less conceptual and more character-based. The overall story just strikes me as a framework; it gives our characters a space to exist in, but it isn't the "point." But I'm just a character-loving English-major fool, so what do I know?
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MoriartyL
Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 295
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| Posted 02/10/09 at 05:48 AM | Reply with quote #17 |
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Character interaction is story too, you know.
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sharc
Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 81
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| Posted 02/10/09 at 12:27 PM | Reply with quote #18 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by thegamecritique
People claim that they want to be able to play the game through without having to stop ever, and yet after tense moments they relax by putting the controller down. In games that use them well they are a part of the game's pacing. Beyond Good and Evil is one of those games.
wait, are we still talking about me? because that's putting words in my mouth! i jsut don't want to stop unless it's for something important, and the "cutscenes" i really hate are ones that stop the game to convey useless or obvious information, like a door opening.
i actually really like the scene where pey'j is taken, one of the game's best moments even for a cutscene hater like me. it's well directed, powerful, and placed in a way that surprised me even though i knew it was there; you leave pey'j on his own so many times that you come to see it as routine instead of dangerous, and they even let you rescue him once to make you feel like you could save him from anything that happened. even taking control away is forgivable because the scene automates what you would be doing anyway, running to save pey'j but getting there a second too late. the fact that it uses that time you'd just be holding forward on the stick to show your dear friend getting viciously beaten...well. there's nothing i'd change about the whole setup.
sure can't say any of that about scenes where some iris agent points to stuff on a map or screen and then rattles off the over-arcing plot, though! from a purely technical standpoint, it seems like redundancy to have cutscene and gameplay segments that both establish the exact same information, and i'd rather have the latter than the former.
i guess that's my problem here; i feel like the iris network spoils the fun and intrigue of jade's spy work, and it doesn't even contribute a lot back. after the factory, jade already has a compelling personal reason to fight on that dwarfs even planet-wide subjugation of humanity; the writing with jade and pey'j (you too, double h) is really something spectacular and i wish there wasn't anything else pretending it was as important.
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zackman
Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 43
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| Posted 02/10/09 at 05:49 PM | Reply with quote #19 |
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Speaking of (1) redundant story-telling and (2) all-in-one games...Since I played Jak II a couple of years after Beyond Good & Evil, I didn't make the connection, but now it seems pretty obvious. The framework of the two games is eerily similar: go out and do some 'core gameplay' (different between the two of course), come back to an underground lair and get told exactly where to go and what to do. Repeat. Cutscenes as needed.
For Jak II, I think this is OK. The story is not that great anyway, and the missions don't even support the story very much. Besides, I would get annoyed in an action game if I couldn't figure out what to do next. So I don't really expect players to care about the story. I think the story is there to explain why character X is the boss and to set up sequels.
Not so with BG&E. This is a really good story, and the gameplay feels like it *ought* to be a main support of the story, except that it's always knocked in the back of knees and passed up by the overbearing briefings and constant reminders from your friends. The gameplay ends up playing catchup. The problem is that BG&E follows the conventions of modern games in trying to make sure that you never have to remember anything.
So I'm pretty sure the problem is not cutscenes--the problem would be just as bad if it were *only* Double-H and half the population of Hillys telling me about the secret slaughterhouse entrance. I should have to discover it myself. If the designers still wanted to make sure that you never forget where to go, it would have been better to have a big flashing arrow on your hovercraft HUD. At least that way it's an obvious suspension of disbelief instead of the whole story feeling slightly cart-before-the-horse.
Hmm...think about Metroid Prime, Shadow of the Colossus and BG&E. Which one provides a better way to keep the player on track? They're all supporting different kinds of gameplay, though. Well, this is just musing; I'm out of analysis for now. Any ideas? |
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Freezair
Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 40
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| Posted 02/10/09 at 05:56 PM | Reply with quote #20 |
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I agree telling the player what they have to do every second is annoying, but I'm not so sure how much I like the "make the player remember everything" gambit. Have you ever tried to go back to a game after ignoring it for a month or so, and finding out that you have no idea what you're supposed to be doing?
There's clearly a balance to strike. I'm very glad I played through Shadow of the Colossus in a weekend, because I'd forget everything about where I needed to be if I took breaks. I played Metroid Prime pretty much straight on through as well, though it obviously took a bit longer--the fact that it marked out objectives was nice.
I realize saying this sort of thing is pretty much grounds for being flayed alive in most gamescapes, but... this is why I like Navi from Ocarina of Time. She reminds you of what you're doing in an unobstructive way. She does do it frequently, but her hints are usually pretty subtle, and reliable. And she offered and extra helping wing if you were stuck on, say, how to defeat an enemy. She's a popular target for hate, but I think she does her job exceptionally well.
I think it's the later characters in her mold who really did what she's so infamous for--telling you absolutely everything and never being quiet.
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Greg
Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 8
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| Posted 02/10/09 at 06:42 PM | Reply with quote #21 |
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Wow, do I have a lot to say here. I started later than everyone else, but I'm in the slaughterhouse now. On my previous playthrough of the game, I finally got all the animals, all the pearls, and even an MDisk which included a minigame I'd never seen before. Now, this is my 5th playthrough of the game and I'm making it a speed-run.
I'm going to read this thread and offer my own comments - hopefully I'm not retreading old ground too much here.
Quote: Originally Posted by "Amoveo"
How can you get tired of such a core game mechanic? It seems like getting tired of shooting things while playing a first person shooter.
My feeling exactly. The stealth gameplay and the creative situations where it comes into play are probably my favorite part of BG&E. I'd forgotten about such great sections as sneaking through the mist and avoiding the moving spotlight.
Quote: Originally Posted by "Kimari"
I think that overall, the stealth mechanics are the worst part of beyond good & evil.
Really??!? They're my favorite part of the game, and the stealth rooms in the Slaughterhouse are some of my favorite ones.
Quote: Originally Posted by "Amoveo"
I mean humans are being kidnapped tortured and shipped to the moon and I'm taking pictures of wild animals?
Well, it's a way to provide cash, and Jade needs cash to buy stuff like repair pods and Kbups.
Quote: Originally Posted by "MoriartyL"
I don't think the "core" of the game is any particular game mechanic: rather, it is the story made up of how all the different game mechanics come together.
Well said. The game's variety is one of the things I enjoy most about it.
As far as things like the cutscenes, this game is a product of its time. It's a six year old game, and at that point the gamer population hadn't yet reached the general consensus that it has now that the Half-Life 2 model of story exposition done in-engine is superior. That said, the cutscenes are sometimes very effective in showing a room from a mirror perspective that lets you see things that wouldn't be visible from Jade's viewpoint. Handy when you'll need to sneak past something.
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TheGameCritique
Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 45
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| Posted 02/10/09 at 06:44 PM | Reply with quote #22 |
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Listen.
Listen.
Ok, being serious now.
@Sharc No, not directed at you. Now you're just projecting  . But in general the complaint is often aimed at the existance of cutscenes when the player is bored. But never mentioned after a tough battle or chase or any other tense moment as a point for the player to calm down. I was especially grateful in RE4 that the attache case paused the game just so I could regain my composure in the tough moments. Given that the same people don't complain at these times, it is not the cutscene devise, but the use and writing of the scene. I've seen some really poorly written cutscenes that could have been fine with an actual writer or even just an editor. I've seen others repeat the same information that we just got. BG&E does this, but never in a cut scene. I'm looking at you Final Fantasy.
@Freezair I'm also an enlgish major taking a class on detective fiction. I was wondering what I could say in my wrap up post on the game once VGC is done with it. It hink I will focus on the investigative story BG&E is trying to build. See there developed two types of mystery crime narratives during the 19th centruy. The detection and the caper; the former focuses on who and how and the latter focuses on what will we do about it. There is a seperation between the Iris network and the rest of Hillis. The Iris network is much more informed about the conflict as a whole, because it does extend beyond Hillis. This is only on front. While I see the normal Hillians as people who have never left their own planet. Hillias seems a bit of a backwater compared to the rest of the galaxy. The Iris network knows what is going on, but the normal people don't and it is they who can get rid of the Alpha Sections. The only weapon that the Iris network has is information.
Speaking of which, is it me or does the Iris network/Alpha Section's propoganda sound like a Fox News/MSNBC pissing match?
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Kimari
Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 43
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| Posted 02/10/09 at 06:50 PM | Reply with quote #23 |
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Hold on, hold on, cut back the cutscene talk for just a second, Freezair said something very important (especially considering the ending). It's something that I thought about after finishing the game but never put into words:
Quote: Originally Posted by Freezair
I would also argue that this game isn't as about the story as everyone claims it is--or, more accurately, that the story here isn't about government corruption or journalism, but about how our trio of protagonists act around one another, what they struggle through, and how they grow and evolve. I think the themes here are less conceptual and more character-based. The overall story just strikes me as a framework; it gives our characters a space to exist in, but it isn't the "point." But I'm just a character-loving English-major fool, so what do I know?
This makes total sense. We can't view the "story" in BGE without considering that it was based around characters. Everything is based around the 3 protagonists.
The alpha sections are evil because... well, because they are evil? You never get a justification, they just kick puppies for sport. They are there to be enemies, and that's it, their justifications are not important to Jade so they shouldn't be to us (still, I can't refrain from cringing at a rather idiotic, cliched and unnecessary "revelation" at the end of the game).
This style of storytelling creates huge plot holes everywhere, and at times makes the world seem arbitrary, but in return we get a dramatic story that is unbelievable and yet charming. It's just... there are times where I can't help but look for a reasoning behind something and then get mad because there is no reason after all.
For example: Pearls. You collect them to trade them for hovercraft accessories. Cool. Now, why would the rhinos at the mammango garage need pearls? Uh, yeah, well, it's, you know, it's sparkly and pretty and, you know.... maybe it has to do with fuel? or... nope, I can't even think of a reasonable explanation.
Apparently the aliens use them for something because some of their creature's "eyes" are actually pearls. Huh, weird that. No it's never explained either and I can't come up with a reasonable explanation other than:
"Pearls: A device whose mystery is only exceeded by it's power."
EDIT:
Quote: Originally Posted by GregQuote: Originally Posted by "Kimari"
I think that overall, the stealth mechanics are the worst part of beyond good & evil. Really??!? They're my favorite part of the game, and the stealth rooms in the Slaughterhouse are some of my favorite ones.
Ladies and gentlemen, I present you: differing opinions.
Seems like we came to BGE with very different expectations and still managed to enjoy it for entirely different reasons =)
Quote: Originally Posted by Greg
As far as things like the cutscenes, this game is a product of its time. It's a six year old game, and at that point the gamer population hadn't yet reached the general consensus that it has now that the Half-Life 2 model of story exposition done in-engine is superior.
Hold on just a second. Can we really say it's superior? I would say it's different.
Quote: Originally Posted by Greg
That said, the cutscenes are sometimes very effective in showing a room from a mirror perspective that lets you see things that wouldn't be visible from Jade's viewpoint. Handy when you'll need to sneak past something.
Exactly.
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sharc
Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 81
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| Posted 02/10/09 at 07:16 PM | Reply with quote #24 |
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kimari, your post helps crystallize why i don't like the whole resistance movement sub-plot. it exists to ground things in reality, but the answers just create more questions and the explanations we get aren't even all that necessary to begin with; the less said, the more acceptable mystery is. unfortunately iris and the alphas do plenty of talking, and it doesn't go anywhere nearly as fascinating as the character drama while still taking up time on the stage.
it would all be very necessary in other games, but the writing in beyond good and evil is damn good and can stand on its own legs. no amount of implied cackling villainy can compare to a character we've grown to care about being beaten and kidnapped. i feel like that's all the explanation jade or the player really needs to keep going.
the main thing iris seems to handle is information; i was saying i felt jade's contributions are diminished by the fact that the omniscient-until-it's-suddenly-not iris spy network already beat her to all the scoops. your role is gathering evidence to back up the amazingly detailed information on classified topics iris has somehow accumulated without getting a shred of proof in the process. if these guys are so awesome at getting information, why do they need jade's help so much? if they need jade's help so much, why doesn't the story let her make the big discoveries?
i'm not sure how i feel about all that, really; even seeing your pictures used in reports feels more like getting a gold star from the teacher than really doing something yourself. am i being stupid here, or did anyone else feel like that?
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Homer
Registered: 02/11/09
Posts: 1
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| Posted 02/11/09 at 04:16 AM | Reply with quote #25 |
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Just registered to debate.
Quote: Originally Posted by Kimari
For example: Pearls. You collect them to trade them for hovercraft accessories. Cool. Now, why would the rhinos at the mammango garage need pearls? Uh, yeah, well, it's, you know, it's sparkly and pretty and, you know.... maybe it has to do with fuel? or... nope, I can't even think of a reasonable explanation.
Apparently the aliens use them for something because some of their creature's "eyes" are actually pearls. Huh, weird that. No it's never explained either and I can't come up with a reasonable explanation other than:
"Pearls: A device whose mystery is only exceeded by it's power."
Weird explanation , i guess you just don't get it, it's told in the game (by hyllians) that's pearls are an illegal money (black market), and it seems to have a big value (people on hillys give their pearls to IRIS to help them, it's war, just try to imagine the situation) i'd like to compare it to our gold (but illegal gold ^^), it's a safe bet, it does not devalue. That's what i read and understood throught the game. And i went to the BG&E site, it say :
Quote: Originally Posted by BGE SITE
In the wake of another alien attack on Hillyan commerce sectors, units currency values took another hit. Giant Pearls are rapidly become the monetary unit of choice, due to their extremely powerful purchasing power. To make matters worse, some merchants - such as Mamago Garage - refuse to accept standard currency altogether, insisting on Pearl-only transactions. The Government strongly criticizes this policy, stating it will lead to a full scale economic meltdown. Describing these merchants as "commercial pirates," the Minister of Commerce has urged citizens to "remain faithful to the official currency and help Hillyan businesses prosper once again."
I thought exactly the same before reading that. Easier to get it on the site, it could be explain through the game like on the site, but it could look dumb, dunno.
We're here to talk about bg&e (great stuffs, bad stuffs) through lots of topics, you get lot of bad stuffs in bg&e... I would like to see what a game you do could look like ^^... I say that because i like BG&E, i guess  .
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