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brainygamer

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Registered: 07/13/08
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Reply with quote  #1 
Post your thoughts on Kakariko Village here.
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Jacob

Registered: 06/19/11
Posts: 43
Reply with quote  #2 
I think my favorite part of the 3DS remake is how it amplifies the artists' original vision of the game, and the best example of this that I've found so far has been in Kakariko Village.

I've always thought of the early segments of the game featuring Young Link as quite whimsical and lighthearted, but Kakariko Village tells me I might have to re-examine that mentality, because when I explored the place today I was surprised at how incredibly sad it is. Depressing, even.

First of all, thanks to the increased detail of the 3DS version, I couldn't help but notice that all of the buildings in the village look significantly older and more weathered than their N64 counterparts, and each of them features some sort of pale brown or gray color scheme. Not only that, but I couldn't find a single character that seemed genuinely happy in the entire town. The Hyrule guard that begrudgingly greets you at the front gate has the sole job of telling you what time of day it is. The foreman is unhappy at how unskilled his workers are, and the workers are tired and fearful of a boss that they find overly demanding. You meet a girl who's frantically worried about her chickens that have escaped, and she can't gather them up herself because she's allergic to them (that's a nasty bit of cruel irony, there: the chicken farmer is allergic to chickens) and the strange creature that mopes underneath the tree at night constantly complains that nobody understands him.

Combine all that with a thoroughly melancholy theme song, and you've got yourself a pretty darn depressing little village. At least in my opinion.

Eric_Brasure

Registered: 06/20/11
Posts: 2
Reply with quote  #3 
I will admit that I have spent way too much time trying to chase down all those chickens.
vinternet

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Registered: 07/14/09
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Reply with quote  #4 
Kakariko village was always a weird mixed bag of fun things to do (chase chickens!) and fundamentally sad characters. But I think it's fitting, given the town's history as home to the "shadow people" that it might be a bit more somber than most.

I think it's funny, too, that you don't mention possibly the MOST depressing part of Kakariko Village - its prominent (haunted) graveyard!


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gglick

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Registered: 06/21/11
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Reply with quote  #5 
Did anyone else think there was something a little unusual about the way the carpenters move? I've been playing through OoT 3D in Japanese, and the original text revealed that the carpenters were all originally written in the stereotypical gay man voice used by much Japanese media; i.e. they use feminine pronouns to refer to themselves and use overly feminine methods of speech. Not a big deal, and it may even be more common knowledge than I was aware of, but I thought it was an interesting detail that was, at least as I recall from playing the English version years ago, glossed over for the US release.
MoriartyL

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Reply with quote  #6 
Interesting. The American version takes out that aspect of their characterization entirely. Now I'm wondering what else I'm missing by not playing in the original language.

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gglick

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Reply with quote  #7 
-MoriartyL
I can tell you that Sheik (spoiler-texted just in case; highlight to read) speaks in a much more masculine voice than Zelda, whose manner of speech also more clearly indicates her societal position. It makes the distinction between the two characters more pronounced and the twist more of a surprise, at least in my opinion.
ironlord

Registered: 09/30/10
Posts: 21
Reply with quote  #8 
@gglick - glad to see I was't imagining things when that was my first instinct of the characters.

I did particularly enjoy gliding via the chickens. It's a clever puzzle to use puzzle elements to get to otherwise-unreachable puzzle elements  

I also did not make the connection between the Zelda letter and "permission to go to Death Mountain". That wasn't clearly identified anywhere that I saw.

The game's picking up pace now
Jacob

Registered: 06/19/11
Posts: 43
Reply with quote  #9 
@ironlord
Yeah the game takes its time, but after you get to the second dungeon the ball really starts rolling. Glad you're enjoying it
thisyearsmodel

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Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 187
Reply with quote  #10 
Wow, so interesting to hear about the carpenters' characterization...I did always think the little dialogue noises they made were oddly effeminate, but I didn't realize that was the game's literal intent! What a weird, politically incorrect little touch. I can't sit here and pretend to be offended over such an innocuous (if stereotypical) representation, but it's still a little shocking!
Whistler

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Registered: 06/16/11
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Reply with quote  #11 
I found this village way more fun than the city (actual places to climb up and jump from!), and I was so happy to be able to get a mask. There's some weird stuff going on, but I'm not really sure if it will involve me. Erm, Link.
DrZ

Registered: 06/21/11
Posts: 25
Reply with quote  #12 
*spoiler warning for anyone not yet at kakariko for the second time (not sure how much people know, so sorry thats a bit cryptic *
I'll put spoiler text in just in case, aswell!


For anyone who has been back to the graveyard to get the hookshot since turning adult, did they find it somewhat melancholic that the gravekeeper had died?

I thought this had much more of an impact on me as a 26yo playing for the 2/3 time, than it did the first as a 13yo....

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DrZ

Registered: 06/21/11
Posts: 25
Reply with quote  #13 
@ Whistler
Yeh, it seems it was quietly indicative of what the designers had in mind after this game with majoras mask...
as a side note, am i being REALLY stupid, as i could only find all but one of the chickens ...sorry, cucoos, around kakariko...that included getting over the fence and checking around the back of the windmill....i dont recall it being this difficult last time i played!

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Whistler

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Reply with quote  #14 
With the chickens, there's the one in the crate, as well as the three you have to use a chicken to get to. I think if you've found those, it's mostly a matter of running around. There's one at the start of the village and also a one up by the exit that were "tricky" in the sense that it was easy to forget about them, given how easy it is to get them.
DrZ

Registered: 06/21/11
Posts: 25
Reply with quote  #15 
ah, i think i must have missed the one in the crate...will go on a bombing spree next time I'm there
How did the little blighter get in there?!
Thanks

P.S. Has everyone with the 3DS version made sure to go up the observation tower, as I think the 3D makes views like this all the more impactful!

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Jacob

Registered: 06/19/11
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Reply with quote  #16 
@DrZ
Don't bomb the crate! Roll into it to break it, because if you bomb it and harm the chicken an angry mob of chickens will start attacking until you're dead.

thisyearsmodel

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Reply with quote  #17 
I have to agree with Jacob: this is another area where, for me, the 3DS version really started to shine. I didn't feel quite as palpable a mood of depression as he did - maybe because I came into town at one of the sunniest times in the day, maybe because the Kakariko theme music always carries peaceful and nostalgic undertones for me - but I did feel like I was really seeing what the designers intended me to see for the first time. The contrasting tones in just this one tiny area of the game are really incredible. It's an idyllic village populated by weirdos. One thing I find interesting is the contrast between the lighthearted (if arguably homophobic) portrayal of the carpenters, who you see in the daytime, with that weird little creature sitting under the tree at night. His dialogue is dark enough ("People are disgusting"), but then we find out he's the son of the carpenters' foreman! Really weird stuff, but I love it. Then of course there's the House of Skulltula, which I've always found creepy in a really fun way.

A few differences I noticed (I think!) in the 3DS version, in case anybody is interested: first, with more defined features the guy playing the hurdy-gurdy in the windmill is nowhere near as terrifying as in the original game, which is actually kind of disappointing. Second, I mentioned above that I always thought the carpenters' "talking sound" was oddly effeminate; well, here, they don't appear to talk at all! The only reason I can come up with for this omission is the already-established stereotypical "gay" undertones; but they still skip around with their arms outstretched, so I'm not sure what the developers thought they were accomplishing. I'm a little torn about this particular change. On the one hand, yeah, the humor is surprisingly sophomoric for a Nintendo game; on the other, it just seems sort of harmless to me, and I thought the goofy voices added character (at least the foreman still screams at you). I'm not really the person who would have taken offense in the first place though, so I can't judge too harshly.

Anyway, this is a long post, but I think part of that is because I spent a pretty long time in Kakariko Village last night...mostly trying to round up those damn chickens. This was the first time in playing this game that I had trouble with the controls: specifically, the part where you need to toss a cucco up two individual steps, then grab it and float over to the scaffolding (avoiding the carpenter who prances back and forth across it), and finally jump from the scaffolding to the back entrance of the cow's pen. I must have tried that part 20 times; I'd roll when I meant to grab the chicken and end up clinging to the side of the platform when I wanted to jump off. Really reminded me that, quite frankly, the only time the Zelda series has had truly perfect controls was in 2D. I remember when the DS games came out there was a lot of grumbling about how the stylus was "imprecise"; well, I've had similar input problems with a plain old stick and buttons, so clearly the old controls weren't the masterpiece of precision we were remembering!
Whistler

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Reply with quote  #18 
Oh, is that how you get into the cow's pen with the heart piece? Yikes.
DrZ

Registered: 06/21/11
Posts: 25
Reply with quote  #19 
i found it easier to get a ride from the owl down from death mountain. he drops you off on top of the building and then you can just drop down to the ledge.
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MoriartyL

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Reply with quote  #20 
Yeah, I don't think the flying method was intended by the developers. Pretty awesome that you've pulled it off, thisyearsmodel.

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thisyearsmodel

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Oh, is that how you get into the cow's pen with the heart piece? Yikes.

Quote:
i found it easier to get a ride from the owl down from death mountain. he drops you off on top of the building and then you can just drop down to the ledge.

Quote:
Yeah, I don't think the flying method was intended by the developers. Pretty awesome that you've pulled it off, thisyearsmodel.

Hahahaha, well now I'm not annoyed anymore and feel like a total badass. I honestly thought that was the only way to do it!
Jacob

Registered: 06/19/11
Posts: 43
Reply with quote  #22 
Heh, that's how I got that cow pen heart piece, too. Great minds, as they say
TylorWayne

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Registered: 06/18/11
Posts: 28
Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_Brasure
I will admit that I have spent way too much time trying to chase down all those chickens.


Sometimes I wish those darn chickens would stay caught.  Perhaps the cokoo lady needs a higher fence.
geno55

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 22
Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisyearsmodel
Hahahaha, well now I'm not annoyed anymore and feel like a total badass. I honestly thought that was the only way to do it!
Same here, it seemed like the most obvious way to me too. Yet harder still for me was throwing the cucco onto the fenceposts, then climbing up and picking it up before it ran away, all in order to get into the hidden back area. Or maybe I was doing something horribly wrong?

I also find Kakariko to be peaceful and never considered the depressing elements of it (except for the House of Skulltula, which creeped me out more than anything else as a kid). I guess it kind of makes sense because it's meant to be the refuge for the poorer and maybe less sane residents of Hyrule, people who couldn't make it in Hyrule town proper.
shallow_depths

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Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 26
Reply with quote  #25 
Kakariko Village is where things really started to come together for me.  Little details and solving small mysteries started to make everything feel more connected and coherent.

Most notably, the House of Skulltula finally explaining what those gold tokens are about.  Quite creepy and intriguing, and although I doubt I'll track all the gold Skulltulas down it did tempt me.

I'm developing a lot of trust for the game design.   Things that are slightly unclear now will resolve themselves in time.

One little detail I appreciated was knocking at the back door of one of the houses and finding out the depressed creature that sits under the tree at night is the head carpenter's son.  I love non-critical moments like these, which give more insight into characters/place if you hunt for them.

I gave myself quite a shock stumbling upon the Royal Family's Tomb and triggering a storm to shatter the headstone.  Still quite a dramatic scene.  I also managed to give myself a fright by moving one of the gravestones and releasing a ghost.  I suppose my experimentation has been treated fairly here: go ahead and explore the graves but be prepared for the consequences!

I enjoyed chasing chickens, but if they are going to escape again I'd prefer it if they were in different places.

A few characters here say you don't have to complete their quest.  It made me feel a bit guilty about it, which is one of the reasons I went mask shopping before heading up Death Mountain.  Damn these characters and their reverse psychology.

I think most games would trust you to make choices about sidequests and optional exploration without having to state that choice explicitly.  It's a little bit odd to me.  I had a similar moment in Hyrule field where the owl told me that there were dangerous things nearby... but that of course I can go wherever I like (which is exactly what I was doing before you interrupted me, owl!).
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