TheGameCritique
Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 45
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| Posted 02/08/09 at 08:37 PM | Reply with quote #26 |
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I'm hearing a lot of control and camera issues from people and I'm wondering if these are the same people who are playing it on PC. I'm playing the PS2 version and it works perfectly. I never had a problem once with the camera and in seeing the Alpha Sections. I made it through the factory without fighting my way through a single room.
I really do think this is a conolse game through and through. It's just based too much on analog controls. Also, if you are in steath mode, pushing up causes the camera to rise rather than look at the ceiling.
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CrashT
Registered: 08/19/08
Posts: 327
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| Posted 02/08/09 at 09:09 PM | Reply with quote #27 |
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I am indeed using the PC, but the first time I finished the game was also on PC and I'm surprised that I seem to have self-censored how annoying the controls were from my mind.
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GamerTag: CrashT
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davidcarlton
Moderator
Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 548
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| Posted 02/10/09 at 01:36 AM | Reply with quote #28 |
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| It's interesting how different the gameplay is from what I remembered it as. I've kind of pigeonholed the game as "short Zelda clone" in my head, but it's really not: when going through the city before this, I realized that there's a much higher density of different gameplay styles than I remembered, and now I've remembered that, actually, stealth is really more a dominant gameplay than combat. That's the way it is for the rest of the game, isn't it? Pity I don't like stealth more, but at least it's been pretty forgiving so far. |
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sharc
Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 81
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| Posted 02/10/09 at 12:58 PM | Reply with quote #29 |
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something i forgot is that, prior to the laser turrets, combat is a completely valid way to play through the game. i went through purposely blowing all the stealth sections to just fight the alphas head-on, and it's pretty damned enjoyable because they're genuinely hard enemies. taking on two or three of them at once with no partner for support makes for a great fight and tests jade's skills in a way that none of the other enemies do.
it's a nice little challenge for anyone that wants the game to hit them back, and yet it's only there if you go looking for it. i love to see games that allow for different playstyles like this, and it's a shame that those stupid turrets show up to force you into stealth later on because as far as i'm considered jade is too robust a fighter to bother sneaking around. give me bigger squads of power-armored goons to fight! or sneak by, i guess. if that's your thing.
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Freezair
Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 40
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| Posted 02/10/09 at 02:58 PM | Reply with quote #30 |
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There are actually relatively few areas with instant-death turrets. I will admit that there is one where it's pretty egregious and evil, but otherwise, I actually don't think they're all that prelevant. Also, if you're very, very careful, it is still possible to "disc" them from behind in the laser areas. It helps if you're only dealing with one guard, but it is possible to fire discs without getting there attention. Sadly, I don't think this works in the area-that-isn't-actually-in-the-factory-that-we're-all-talking-about-anyway.
I will admit that I do love rattling a few Alpha Section brainbuckets. A lot of the areas you're given to fight them are actually relatively disadvantageous for you--they're really narrow, and to fight them most effectively, you need space to take advantage of your superior speed. They're pretty fun enemies, they are.
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sharc
Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 81
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| Posted 02/10/09 at 03:16 PM | Reply with quote #31 |
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yeah, i'm probably making them out to be more annoying than they really are. i just don't like it when i get used to a certain tactic that then gets shut out for a reason that feels gimmicky, i suppose.
or maybe i just really like fighting the alphas. they do double damage compared to other enemies, have lightning quick attacks that require careful dodging, and generally have a buddy that either nails you with laser blasts if you stand still or tosses in grenades that disable small areas of the playing field at random. even when i suddenly bite it fighting three of them, it leaves me feeling "if it weren't for that one slip-up i'd have done it! one more try..." my first time through i remember feeling that the game was too easy and overly simplistic, but i clearly wasn't giving it due credit.
it's a real treat though, to find that the various play styles available - slipping past guards with pure stealth, taking them out ninja-style with precision attacks, or just gung-ho beatdowns - are each highly enjoyable in their own right. the levels are designed to make all three approaches interesting and challenging. that's really something, isn't it? most games have trouble making one style interesting.
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Freezair
Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 40
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| Posted 02/10/09 at 05:49 PM | Reply with quote #32 |
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(Balatant skipping ahead, but...) I really love the areas in the later levels where they give you the oppertunity to double-team the Alphas with HH. The whole thing turns into an enormous free-for-all fray that's extremely fun. You can gang up on 'em! You can lure them away to attack you and have HH crush their air tanks from behind while they're focusing on you... or pick off the ones picking on him by sneaking around them! You can make HH spam his headbutt attack until they're beaten in the ground! For a game with such simple combat, it's remarkably fun.
*sigh* This has apparently devolved from "discuss the factory" to "discuss all the stealth portions of the game in general." Well, conversations do evolve... 
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crimsonclone
Registered: 09/02/08
Posts: 156
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| Posted 02/10/09 at 11:09 PM | Reply with quote #33 |
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Thoughts that have nothing to do with stealth.
I can't say I was necessarily surprised that Peyj was captured. Up to that point unless the game presented a puzzle or obstacle that required Peyj to be completed, Jade was doing all the heavy lifting. Him getting turned into a shield by the reaper was to me a sign that Peyj should really hang up his boots and leave the adventuring to Jade.
Of course then we wind up with Double H who functionally works the same as Peyj, he exists to be told 'bash down this barrier' or 'perform your bash attack so we can kill this enemy' and remains useless in combat in addition to being seperated from Jade all the time. Really it feels less like the companions are useful in their own right and more the game contrives uses for them and highlights that by seperating them from Jade over and over again. The result was I had a hard time getting attached to Peyj and I just don't care about Double H.
In some ways I think Double H having the same gameplay function as Peyj made it harder to feel the emotional loss of Peyj. Had Peyj been unique or if I encountered areas that made me think 'if only Peyj was here I could get through this' then I would likely have felt something. Unfortunately, I can't help but feel that with the gameplay function Double H serves the game is telling me that in the end Peyj was expendable.
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Greg
Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 8
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| Posted 02/11/09 at 12:09 AM | Reply with quote #34 |
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How odd is it that I actually prefer the insta-death cannons then? If I'm sneaking and I get caught, I'd rather die instantly so I can start over to sneak through without being seen than stand around waiting for them to kill me so that I can start over.
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sharc
Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 81
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| Posted 02/11/09 at 01:07 PM | Reply with quote #35 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by greg
If I'm sneaking and I get caught, I'd rather die instantly so I can start over to sneak through without being seen than stand around waiting for them to kill me so that I can start over.
beyond good and evil doesn't really have that problem, though; if you break visual contact, the alphas won't actively hunt you down like in a metal gear game. they simply hold their position and REQUEST ZONE CLEARING AUTHORIZATION
ACCORDED
escaping from the clearing device is its own little learned skill, as you can use corners and other baffles to hide from its beams. it's a pretty elegant little mechanic to prevent you having to run around evading guards for ten minutes, so the laser turrets still seem a little unnecessary to me. as freezair pointed out, though, they really don't come into play that often, and feature most prominently in a totally optional sneaking challenge area.
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Amoveo
Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 68
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| Posted 02/11/09 at 08:32 PM | Reply with quote #36 |
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Quote: How odd is it that I actually prefer the insta-death cannons then? If I'm sneaking and I get caught, I'd rather die instantly so I can start over to sneak through without being seen than stand around waiting for them to kill me so that I can start over.
Its not odd at all, I totally agree with you. Being seen and going and hiding makes no sense from a narrative standpoint. It makes the guards seem retarded, the security seem weak, and completely defangs the game.
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