brainygamer

Moderator
Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 524
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| Posted 05/22/09 at 07:24 PM | Reply with quote #1 |
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Post your thoughts and experiences, questions and advice on factions here.
- Spartan Federation
- Gaia's Stepdaughters
- University of Planet
- Peacekeeping Forces
- Human Hive
- Lord's Believers
- Morgan Industries
__________________ Michael Abbott
Brainy Gamer blog and podcast |
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DoubleDracula
Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 31
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| Posted 05/23/09 at 08:53 AM | Reply with quote #2 |
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A stereotype is a phrase relating to all the members of class or set.
Games like this seem to always rely on stereotype so I was curious to look at what stereotypes were in this game. Looking at the factions, I can see that some of their stereotypes were turned on their head. I wonder how purposeful that design decision was.
Spartan Federation - Sadistic S+M woman. Dark hair; callous, angry demeanor, I never quite understood why a strong woman also had to be associated with that sort of thing. But, here she is. I realize they're playing off of SPARTAAAAAAA, but this faction didn't have 300 to remind us what spartans were aside from those guys with funny hats.
Gaia's Stepdaughters - Of course, because women are always the 'nurturers' they are almost always the ones who are in touch with and love the planet/nature. This one was no surprise.
University of Planet - I didn't quite understand this one until I saw the quote: "The substructure of the universe regresses infinitely towards smaller and smaller components. Behind atoms we find electrons, and behind electrons quarks. Each layer unraveled reveals new secrets, but also new mysteries." The stereotype here is the antithesis of science. These guys seem to be playing on the stereotypical belief that science and religion cannot coexist.
Peacekeeping Forces - This one sort of surprised me but then did not. His garb from his picture depicts middle eastern / muslim and this isn't surprising given the belief that muslims were far more accommodating than Christians during their time in power. Then I realized that this guy symbolizes the beliefs of the stereotypical muslim if America had fallen.
Human Hive - Asian Buddhist stereotype through and through, nothing even here to mask it.
Lord's Believers - Again, this is a blatant stereotype though it saddens me that it's the same one that appears constantly in the movies (Donnie Darko, et al).
Morgan Industries - African Warlord manages to get some diamond mines.
Do games like this need to rely on stereotypes to get across the type of groups there are quickly or should there be more work done in creating groups 'in the future' that don't resemble our present day stereotypes? |
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crimsonclone
Registered: 09/02/08
Posts: 156
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| Posted 05/23/09 at 02:51 PM | Reply with quote #3 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by DoubleDracula
Do games like this need to rely on stereotypes to get across the type of groups there are quickly or should there be more work done in creating groups 'in the future' that don't resemble our present day stereotypes?
The stereotypes are needed because the factions in Alpha Centauri serve as an exploration of the use of radical ideology as a means of governance. To be meaningful it helps to have that callback to elements present in the real world. Yes some things are taken to extremes, the Lord's Believers faction is built off the fear that United States would become a fundamentalist authoritarian state during the turn of the century, but what the factions represent is 'What if the extreme fringe ideologies in the late 20th century got everything they wanted?'. Could they run the world better then everyone else like they claim?
Quote: Originally Posted by DoubleDracula Morgan Industries - African Warlord manages to get some diamond mines.
Okay I've got to ask, how did you come to this conclusion?
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DoubleDracula
Registered: 01/21/09
Posts: 31
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| Posted 05/24/09 at 12:53 PM | Reply with quote #4 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by firaxis.com Born 2005, of African royalty. Nwabudike, using seed money to buy and sell weapons during the Sahara Burst Wars, was able to purchase a private mercenary force to claim a series of diamond mines from a defeated enemy nation. Leveraged his growing wealth to expand into several other businesses, including mercenary forces, U.N. escorts, brokering food deals, and creating Morgan SafeHaven Hotel Fortress chain "for the discriminating executive."
Additional Notes (full disclosure): When Russian economic system crashed again in 2058, Morgan Industries was retained by the U.N. as one of several private businesses to work on the sprawling Unity Project. Work completed in a timely manner. Nwabudike Morgan's whereabouts currently unknown.
It's a play on if Africa could actually get money from DeBeers and what would actually happen if they did it. It has a slightly negative influence due to the events in Africa around the time of making the game.
I understand the radical ideology thing. I was more curious about the gender attached to the ideological exploration. |
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crimsonclone
Registered: 09/02/08
Posts: 156
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| Posted 05/24/09 at 04:57 PM | Reply with quote #5 |
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Okay, gotcha. My confusion was calling the leader of the most militarily inept faction a warlord (even the Gaians can mount a superior offensive).
Gender though, I'm not sure how much can be read into faction ideology just based on that. My only speculation would be Miriam (Believers) was designed so that Believers were not led by someone who looked like a television evangelist. Santiago is probably better defined then the Spartan Federation. Survivalist militia I can understand, how it translates to lower industrial output I do not. Also making the faction motto 'the right to bear arms' is a bit strange when no one is really disputing that fact.
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grobstein

Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 59
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| Posted 05/24/09 at 05:50 PM | Reply with quote #6 |
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(The Gaians are actually excellent at war in the early-mid-game, because the ability to capture wild mindworms cuts out both the mineral costs of producing troops and the energy costs of researching weapons -- alien-life battles ignore weapons and armor. And mindworms move rapidly over fungus, before other factions have had time to learn to do the same, or to build a lot of roads.) |
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10rdBen

Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 79
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| Posted 05/25/09 at 11:43 PM | Reply with quote #7 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by DoubleDracula
Do games like this need to rely on stereotypes to get across the type of groups there are quickly or should there be more work done in creating groups 'in the future' that don't resemble our present day stereotypes?
I have to agree with CrimsonClone when he says what you call "stereotypes" are used to "serve as an exploration of the use of radical ideology as a means of governance" and as such don't find them as distasteful as you obviously do.
Actually I think that a lot of what we read into the individual political and ideological positions of each faction is less the game making some kind of ideological statement itself and more a mirror of our own ideologies.
For example - when I first started to play as a kid, I absolutely hated The Believers with a passion. This was partly because I always chose The University for it's rational, enlightened pursuit of science which was an ideology I agreed with strongly at the time. It is also in almost directly in opposition to The Believers ideology and beliefs that we exist not for the pursuit of science or wealth or personal gain, but to serve God and do his Will.
For a long, long time I resisted The Believers until I reached the point where I had basically exhausted every other faction. So I played them thinking I would hate it and... well, I got to get inside the skin of The Believers and it gave me a bit of a different perspective on them - I couldn't well hate my own faction after all. It personalised the faction and turned an "ideology" into something less abstract and more human. Playing as The Believers showed me that they dealt with all the same stuff that my preferred faction dealt with - they just went about it in a completely different way than the University does. I still find their ideology to be distasteful and close-minded... but they obviously don't mind it, and take comfort in their faith and the assurance that it brings.
Of course, when I started playing the game again just this month for the VGC, I picked the University for my faction and the first race that refused to take no for an answer was The Believers. So I took them out with military force, and I'll admit I still enjoyed a guilty sense of satisfaction in capturing and interrogating Sister Miriam.  __________________ Ben Abraham
Read about my Thesis on music in videogames at: http://drgamelove.blogspot.com |
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crimsonclone
Registered: 09/02/08
Posts: 156
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| Posted 05/25/09 at 11:46 PM | Reply with quote #8 |
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That -1 to morale hurts the Gaian's conventional forces, while they can pull some impressive stunts with mindworms I find the Gaian's lack endurance especially if the mindworms aren't sufficiently leveled. They can beat up other 'builder' factions well early on, its when the Hive or Believers launch a 10 unit offensive early on that in my experience mindworms just arn't enough.
On the Gaian's, somewhat paradoxically that eco-friendliness means they have greater freedom to pollute and terraform the planet which tends to be necessary to build up strength when bordered by the more agressive factions. It seems wrong to build boreholes and the like when playing them but what can be done when you end up with the Hive as a neighbor.
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sparky
Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 167
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| Posted 05/27/09 at 09:07 PM | Reply with quote #9 |
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The definite divergence in personalities between the factions is certainly striking. In the Civilization games the differences between societies seem to be quite limited (this is certainly the case in I-III, but I haven't played IV). The limitation, of course, is that while a society may have a personality or flavor these differences aren't very radical. In the case of AC, the completely fictional setting allows the developers to use societies that are the expression of a single idea, and this seems to strongly inform the approach of each society. It's also entertaining to see Deirdre praise you for your green economy or Yang criticize your Democratic tendencies. I even find it affects the way I play. As Lal, I wanted to win the diplomatic way, and if I play the Spartans or Morganites next I'll want to win with conquest or cornering the energy market, respectively. In that sense the factions add a sort of light role-playing layer on the strategy, perhaps pushing the player to explore alternative ways of advancing. __________________ "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." - Isaac Asimov
XBL: SparkyClarkson
http://mwclarkson.blogspot.com |
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vyeh

Registered: 05/25/09
Posts: 26
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| Posted 05/29/09 at 02:41 PM | Reply with quote #10 |
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Stereotypes is the wrong way to think of these factions. More correctly, these factions are caricatures. This is a sci fi/fantasy/horror game.
There is a guy at WPC that is producing alternate pictures. If you don't like a female Spartan, he can produce a male. Frankly, I would assume a male Spartan would be more of a stereotype than a female one. I didn't get the S & M overtones to Colonel Santiago.
One of the nice things about SMAC is the number of women leaders. And I certainly don't see how you could call Yang a Buddhist! I think of the North Korean leader as the inspiration for Yang and he is certainly no Buddhist.
I could go on about this, but I think I have made my point.
The different factions in SMAC give SMAC more re-playability than Civ. __________________ Unofficial SMAC/X Patches Version 1.0 @ Civilization Gaming Network |
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crimsonclone
Registered: 09/02/08
Posts: 156
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| Posted 05/31/09 at 10:30 PM | Reply with quote #11 |
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Finally finished a play through as the Peacekeepers so some thoughts on the faction.
Compared to the other faction concepts the Peacekeepers are no where near as defined. I know the intent was to create a 'diplomacy' faction but I don't feel making the UN Charter as the 'defining' document of the faction really works in context. Given so much detail was placed into developing the planet as realistically as possible it may have worked better to have a Unity mission charter located in the manual appendix.
In terms of mechanics the most prominent perk of the faction is double votes in the planet council, which I absolutely cannot reconcile with the game reality. Given how little respect some factions (Hive, Spartans, Believers) have for the Peacekeepers it makes more sense to me for those factions to cry foul and go home then allow them that advantage. Also while I can buy the idea that complex bureaucracy and committees makes things less efficient this idea is contradicted by the democratic society option giving an efficiency bonus.
Where I feel the faction is truly defined is in in the other 2 mechanical traits of the faction: for every 4 citizens there is one extra talent and can exceed hab complex population limits by 2. Now think about this for a moment, not only are the citizens of the Peacekeeper factions happier then other factions they are willing to pack themselves like sardines into an overcrowded base and feel privileged for the opportunity. Even the Hive cannot convince their citizens to pack themselves in like the Peacekeepers can.
If every faction is trying to emulate an extreme society model the UN Peacekeepers, UN charter silliness aside, represent a run of the mill western democracy. Moreover, the mechanics imply not only do people want to live in such a society over the ideologies other factions champion they are willing to forgo creature comforts in order to stay in a more sane faction. It seems like in indictment of the practical acceptance of more the extreme society models put forward.
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ILR
Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 140
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| Posted 06/02/09 at 07:54 AM | Reply with quote #12 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by vyeh One of the nice things about SMAC is the number of women leaders. And I certainly don't see how you could call Yang a Buddhist! I think of the North Korean leader as the inspiration for Yang and he is certainly no Buddhist. Yeah, my knowledge of Eastern religions is somewhat limited but I'm certain there is very little Buddhist in Yang. Confucianism on the other hand has a definite tendency for legitimizing and respecting the authoritative central state, and there is the Kim dynasty in the Korean peninsula to offer a more secular example as well, but I digress.
I'm playing as the Morganites for my first game (fittingly, morganite is a gemstone, apparently). The hedonistic lifestyle of that faction causes the bases to stay small early on as the people are simply unwilling to cram too tightly into bases until Hab Complexes are built. It's not a major setback, though, and forces quick expansion that I probably would have done in any case. The economic bonuses start rolling early on and a minor tweak raises the ECONOMY value high enough to start receiving energy bonuses from each worked square.
I really like Morgan as a character, even if there is a bit of a disconnect between his back story and his current personality. He got started as a Namibian mercenary magnate, used his seized possessions to build up wealth on the precious metals market and expanded into cleaner business avenues. His current incarnation comes across as a ruthless and practical but wickedly charismatic man who has got enough smarts to keep up with the technobabbly shop talk. A cheeky hybrid of a Microsoft-esque monopolizer and an entrepeneurial self-made man, always cutting to the heart of the matter.
The economic ultraliberalists were probably one of the easiest factions to pin down when designing the game. I'm not sure if their character comes through ideally in the faction bonuses and graphics but the effort is close enough. And like I said, their CEO remains a personal favorite. |
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crimsonclone
Registered: 09/02/08
Posts: 156
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| Posted 06/03/09 at 11:46 PM | Reply with quote #13 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by ILR
The economic ultraliberalists were probably one of the easiest factions to pin down when designing the game. I'm not sure if their character comes through ideally in the faction bonuses and graphics but the effort is close enough. And like I said, their CEO remains a personal favorite.
They are easily the most unique faction out of the original 7. So unique that I've never seen the AI able to do much of anything with them aside from die during the mid game. I tend to interpret the faction penalties as an attempt to represent how unprepared a super capitalistic leaning faction is at basic survival in a hostile environment, although quotes from Morgan from techs seem to indicate he prioritizes survival just as much as Santiago. I guess attempting to highlight his more militaristic side would conflict with the desire to make the Morganites a builder faction.
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ILR
Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 140
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| Posted 06/04/09 at 03:42 AM | Reply with quote #14 |
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Thinking about the factions a bit more, only Morganites, U.N., and Hive strike me as fully realized, even though each of them has some minor inconsistencies.
The Hive is the only faction based on ethnicity, the strongest of human bonds. In a real-life simulation of the seven factions on Planet's surface, I'd always put my money on them. The Chinese have a remarkable history of unity throughout failed centennial dynasties and wretched Cultural Revolutions, always returning strong.
The Peacekeepers are theoretically the ultimate authority of the Unity mission. It is the U.N. Commissioner's duty to keep the band together and, if needed, eliminate the rogue factions. I see their role as somewhat similar to the Papal States in Late Medieval or Renaissance Europe, although with much lesser implicit power as the Papacy had a thousand year history in real life whereas the Peacekeepers are viewed much more as equals by every other factions. No direct excommunications from Lal.
Morganites I already wrote about. But to look at them as a faction, I see them as an ambitious and entrepreneurial shock force, ready to tackle a new frontier and extract profit from it. For a real-life example, take a look at the people involved in the recent Seasteading phenomenon. For a video game example, see Bioshock. Who will scrub the floors and clean the toilets in Morgan Headquarters?
The Gaian philosophy is a significant trend in advanced societies, and forming a faction specifically dedicated to ecological preservation on a mission such as this doesn't sound too far-fetched but there's something a bit off about them, I'll probably return to this later.
As for the Believers, I could never see Christendom and Ummah uniting under the same banner. The major polytheistic religions would also be left off the faction completely. Perhaps the add-on could have included an Islamic faction?
The University is also somewhat plausible in a similar manner that the Gaians are, but forming a faction dedicated to pure research doesn't sound sustainable.
The Spartans are an odd bunch. I can't see how their raison'd'etre - survival instincts - could be neglected in any of the other factions. Survival is always imperative, the classic Maslow's hierarchy needs to be rebuilt from ground up in an alien world. All the other factions have a clear goal to aim for, what are the Spartans planning to do in 200 years by comparison? Do they consider themselves to be on an interstellar camping trip? They fill a nice niche in the game from a game mechanic perspective but I have trouble finding anything substantial in their faction character.
Maybe my point would be that Gaians, Spartans and The University are each more of a representation of an underlying tendency in a larger society that is in turn built on something more tangible. Matters of preservation and research are areas to focus on in the context of an existing society. You could probably make a point that there is a fine line between The University and Morgan Industries in this case, though.
Alpha Centauri has a very elaborate backstory. I need to dig out the manual and read it again. Maybe this is explained satisfactorily there. According to what I remember of the story, the Unity starship suffered a critical failure on The Planet's Orbit and the escape pods needed to be jettisoned on a short notice. In such a situation, some people would flock to Lal due to loyalty towards the original U.N. mission, some people would flock to Morgan because they know he has a way of getting stuff done, some people would flock to Deirdre because she's a botanical expert and they share her view about the importance of preserving the planet, and so on.
Besides, it's not like the methods of survival and progress are that different from each other for any of the factions. Build, expand, cultivate, consolidate, dominate. |
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brainygamer

Moderator
Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 524
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| Posted 06/04/09 at 09:33 PM | Reply with quote #15 |
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I'm probably the odd man out, but I have to say this is where the game grabs my interest. I like piecing together the backstory and thinking about what the factions represent, and I've enjoyed reading the various points of view on them here. The Hive, in particular, fascinates me, and I'd love to sit down with Sid Meier today (assuming he'd agree that the faction represents China) and discuss how today's China might be represented in a modern version of the game.
I'm admittedly a narrative nut, so I'm probably prone to constructing these story elements in my mind whether they exist in the game or not. In the case of SMAC, I think they're embedded into the game in ways that encourage exploration, but a player can also pretty much ignore them and focus on strategic gameplay.
I mention all this because the real meat and potatoes of the game just isn't grabbing me. I've started and restarted 3 times since we began the playthrough, and every time I reach the mid-game phase I lose interest. It all begins to feel like a chore to me, and the game doesn't impart enough rewards or vary its challenges enough to keep me motivated to play.
I'm not suggesting the game is the problem. I honestly think it's me. What I'm discovering is that my tastes have changed as I've gotten older, and my patience for grinding through repetitive tasks has grown shorter. Maybe it's having a busier life than I did when games like Civ II owned my free time. Maybe it's playing a lot of other games in the last decade that have shifted my gaming sensibilities. I don't know.
What I do know is that I'm really struggling to continue playing Alpha Centauri, and I'm surprised I'm responding this way. __________________ Michael Abbott
Brainy Gamer blog and podcast |
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vyeh

Registered: 05/25/09
Posts: 26
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| Posted 06/05/09 at 08:23 AM | Reply with quote #16 |
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The fact that it is repetitive suggests that there are things that could be better done so the computer does the repetition and not the player. I'm not suggesting automation but rather being able to assign a whole bunch of commands to a single metacommand.
One of the most tedious chores is scrolling through base screens trying to figure out which base is going to riot the next turn. Why can't the game simply have a place where you can go and see all the bases that will riot the next turn if nothing is done? __________________ Unofficial SMAC/X Patches Version 1.0 @ Civilization Gaming Network |
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davidcarlton
Moderator
Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 548
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| Posted 06/06/09 at 12:40 AM | Reply with quote #17 |
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I chose the Gaians on my second playthrough; at first, I didn't see too much of a difference from the University (which I chose on my first playthrough), but as I'm getting into the game, I'm finding it pleasantly different on a very basic level: I'm churning out mindworms for my attack units instead of worrying about the various different unit types and having obsolete unit types in the field, and it's working great. Which is nice, since I don't particularly enjoy the details of managing combat in this game.
I'm still not getting grabbed by the narrative differences between factions or by the non-combat differences between factions. (Other than that probe units aren't constantly infiltrating me.) I assume the latter has more to do with my lack of feel for the game than anything else, though.
I'm almost done with my second playthrough, I think I have one more in me. Maybe I'll try the Peacekeepers next? |
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davidcarlton
Moderator
Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 548
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| Posted 06/12/09 at 11:20 PM | Reply with quote #18 |
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And now I've done a third playthrough, bumping up the difficulty another notch and playing as the U.N.
Quite different game - aside from the difficulty, the continent I was on was much more open, so there was lots and lots of room to expand. And expand I did, though a lot of the land was really crappy, so a lot of the cities stayed pretty small.
I had the Spartans next to me, so I was afraid I was going to have to fight a lot; after a little skirmish at the beginning, though, we stayed on cordial terms. In fact, we ended up being quite good friends - I let her convince me to go to vendetta on some of her enemies, so she ended up giving me unit after unit. (During which time I did very little actual fighting.)
I thought I was doing reasonably well - I had a large army, and when I really decided to fight I managed to take over most of the Believers reasonably efficiently. Unfortunately, while I was being relatively peaceful, Lal had been going on the offensive, and by the time I realized that he was a good deal larger than I was, I was in trouble. I managed to threaten a few of his cities (which I probably could have done better at - I used my UN abilities to get elected governor, so I could see which cities had lots of troops in them and which didn't, but I didn't shift my attacks sufficiently in response), but eventually he rolled over me.
I more or less enjoyed the three games I played, but I'm not planning to start a fourth. The last game pointed out some of my issues with the game - I spent some time today playing some songs on Rock Band drums that were at the edge of what I'm comfortable with. I failed several times, and had to drop into practice mode to figure out one particular rhythm (are they triplets or not?), but my time between attempts was measured in minutes, and I had specific areas to focus on. Whereas with SMAC, when I ran into trouble, I was facing the consequences of decisions that I'd made hours ago, and I didn't necessarily have enough information about what I'd done wrong to be able to correct that without more hours of experimentation.
The game is rich enough that I don't necessarily mind that - heck, I don't mind starting over from scratch, individual playthroughs just don't take all that long. I'm just not overwhelmed enough by the game to want to give it another go-around right now. |
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Marceux

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 62
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| Posted 06/18/09 at 06:48 PM | Reply with quote #19 |
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This is going to be the first of my many replies to all the threads in the hopes of starting some conversation and also sharing my notes:
I basically stuck with the Gaians through all my playthroughs because I think I sympathized and related the most with them. I like tree-huggers in all my games and I felt it was nice to have an option in this game.
The main difference I've noticed between playing the Gaians and any other faction was the manipulation of the environment. I felt compelled to actually plant forests instead of constructing mines most of the time. And I felt it was a better option/decision in most cases because of the amount of resources netted from a forest (+1 Food, +2 Minerals, +1 Solar) vs a mine (depends on squares). And forests were very capable of expanding on their own and one random event would harvest a forest for you, providing you with more minerals.
As the Gaians I always avoided pruning the fungus, and I stayed away from boreholes or anything that would terraform too greatly. I micromanaged and researched, and I was content as a builder faction. But as the game drags on, you realize how poorly your units are compared to militaristic factions, and I just couldn't compete. As much as I tried to micromanage in most cases I'd have a very hard time playing against the Hive or the Spartans.
Hmm... the factions are interesting, but despite some setbacks, I love my little hippie-women.
As far as backstory goes, I don't think they should have characterized the Gaians as borderline pacifists, considering how nature is sometimes more savage than it leads you to believe. But that's just a personal preference.
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vyeh

Registered: 05/25/09
Posts: 26
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| Posted 06/20/09 at 12:19 AM | Reply with quote #20 |
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With the Gaians, consider going native. If you capture or produce mindworms, then weapons and armor tech and morale become irrelevant. What becomes important is your planet rating and facilities which increase lifecycle. __________________ Unofficial SMAC/X Patches Version 1.0 @ Civilization Gaming Network |
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Kloreep

Registered: 08/04/08
Posts: 294
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| Posted 06/22/09 at 04:21 AM | Reply with quote #21 |
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I find it interesting to read about people's experiences being drawn or not drawn to a faction by their "personality." I had similar experiences with Civilization 2, in which all civs were equal in terms of the rules. But from Alpha Centauri & Civ3 to Civ4 today, I find myself drawn to and choosing factions based on their strategic play. In terms of narrative, I very much dislike both the Morganites and the Spartans, but they are among my favorites of the factions this time around with the game, simply because of their strategic advantages. |
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LesbianStripperNinja
Registered: 07/03/09
Posts: 4
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| Posted 07/03/09 at 10:45 PM | Reply with quote #22 |
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I play the Civilization for the gameplay. I play the Alpha Centauri (+ expansion) for the ideas. Sid Meier delivers a science fiction game that places social and political philosophy front and center; while I like starships, laser cannons, and robots, I wish more sci-fi games had followed suit. Double Dracula, I disagree with a number of your observations in regards to the factions. Colonel Santiago doesn’t strike me as having S+M overtones. I also find it strange that you complain about her, and in the next paragraph complain that ‘women are always the nurturers.’ You describe Pravin Lal as Middle Eastern and Muslim. He’s Indian and I’d guess he’s Sikh. How do you get to ‘this guy symbolizes the beliefs of the stereotypical muslim if America had fallen?’ (I’m not even sure what you mean by this) I do agree with you that using a Chinese man as the face of the Hive is problematic. Crimsonclone, “Also making the faction motto 'the right to bear arms' is a bit strange when no one is really disputing that fact.” Agreed. ” On the Gaian's, somewhat paradoxically that eco-friendliness means they have greater freedom to pollute and terraform the planet which tends to be necessary to build up strength when bordered by the more agressive factions. It seems wrong to build boreholes and the like when playing them but what can be done when you end up with the Hive as a neighbor. “ I believe the game would be a bit better if the Gaian’s were limited to less environmentally dangerous technology. Galactic Civilizations has something like this in that depending on your alignment, certain technology becomes available, so good civilizations never get the chance to build the slave pits or death star. ILR, ”Thinking about the factions a bit more, only Morganites, U.N., and Hive strike me as fully realized, even though each of them has some minor inconsistencies.” I’m of the opinion that all of the factions were fully realized, though I agree that they had inconsistencies mechanically. ” The Hive is the only faction based on ethnicity, the strongest of human bonds.” Is the Hive based on ethnicity? I never got that feeling. ” As for the Believers, I could never see Christendom and Ummah uniting under the same banner. The major polytheistic religions would also be left off the faction completely. Perhaps the add-on could have included an Islamic faction?” Unity is launched because of major destruction and upheaval on earth. I believe when the pods crash land, they only have about a hundred people in them, and the timeline of the game is difficult to pin down, but could last several hundred years. So, a small group of mostly Christian creates a society under one powerful and charismatic leader who then guides them for several generations. I could see any number of religious ideologies springing from that. ” The Spartans are an odd bunch. I can't see how their raison'd'etre - survival instincts - could be neglected in any of the other factions. Survival is always imperative, the classic Maslow's hierarchy needs to be rebuilt from ground up in an alien world. All the other factions have a clear goal to aim for, what are the Spartans planning to do in 200 years by comparison? Do they consider themselves to be on an interstellar camping trip? They fill a nice niche in the game from a game mechanic perspective but I have trouble finding anything substantial in their faction character.” I don’t think the factions have goals but preferred lifestyles. Gaians want to live in harmony with their new world. Morganites desire wealth and luxury. The Hive wants the individual to serve society. The Spartans want security and discipline and find it through militaristic means. brainygamer: ” I'm admittedly a narrative nut, so I'm probably prone to constructing these story elements in my mind whether they exist in the game or not. In the case of SMAC, I think they're embedded into the game in ways that encourage exploration, but a player can also pretty much ignore them and focus on strategic gameplay.” When I find myself up at 3 am, playing a few more turns, I tend to construct elaborate scenarios around the seven leaders. Like, what if they were the senior officers on Voyager and stuck in the Delta Quadrant? What would Friends look like with these guys? What if you transported them to a fantasy setting? Did you ever read the novels? David: ” I had the Spartans next to me, so I was afraid I was going to have to fight a lot; after a little skirmish at the beginning, though, we stayed on cordial terms.” The only time I’ve had problems with the Spartans is when I’m playing the Peacekeepers. I usually play Gaians, which means Santiago insults me a half-dozen times, but then wants to be my BFF. I picture Deidre and Santiago painting one another’s toenails on the weekends. __________________ The lesbian stripper ninja blog. |
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LesbianStripperNinja
Registered: 07/03/09
Posts: 4
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| Posted 07/03/09 at 11:01 PM | Reply with quote #23 |
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One more post. I assume the Hive was based on Frank Herbert’s Helstrom’s Hive, as two of his other works are recommended and there are a large number of similarities. I wasn’t thrilled with his using a Chinese man as the leader of the Hive though. Western society tends portray Chinese and Japanese societies as a sort of faceless, homogenous mass too often. I found it amusing that the Hive is supposedly the society in which people are a faceless, homogenous mass, but in game terms, that’s true of all seven factions. The ‘cultures’ are merely an extension of their leaders. On a meta-level, all computer civilizations are a borg like collective controlled by one mind, but this is one of the few games draw attention to this. Any suggestions for other games that are ideologically based? __________________ The lesbian stripper ninja blog. |
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ILR
Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 140
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| Posted 07/10/09 at 06:04 AM | Reply with quote #24 |
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Cool, new Alpha Centauri discussion.
Quote: Originally Posted by LesbianStripperNinjaI play the Civilization for the gameplay. I play the Alpha Centauri (+ expansion) for the ideas. Sid Meier delivers a science fiction game that places social and political philosophy front and center; while I like starships, laser cannons, and robots, I wish more sci-fi games had followed suit. That's the general duality of sci-fi literature as well. My friend's wife dismissed the whole genre as 'laser cannons and starships' (which some of the boilerplate stuff certainly fits into) but there's lots of very insightful social analysis from the likes of Lem, Clarke, etc. to be found. Lots of Gulliver-style satirical commentary as well. The Firaxis guys were definitely well-read and it shows in Alpha Centauri.
Quote: ” On the Gaian's, somewhat paradoxically that eco-friendliness means they have greater freedom to pollute and terraform the planet which tends to be necessary to build up strength when bordered by the more agressive factions. It seems wrong to build boreholes and the like when playing them but what can be done when you end up with the Hive as a neighbor. “ I believe the game would be a bit better if the Gaian’s were limited to less environmentally dangerous technology. Galactic Civilizations has something like this in that depending on your alignment, certain technology becomes available, so good civilizations never get the chance to build the slave pits or death star. Civ IV mod Fall From Heaven goes in this direction as well. Some of the 'factions' are ridiculously overpowered in some parts of the game and similarly overwhelmed in others. There are agnostic leaders who make it impossible to convert to any religion (which offer significant bonuses), for example. Balancing is always an issue and what's tolerable in a free mod would likely be seen as a glaring flaw in an official title. Witness the lengths Blizzard has gone and continues to go to make sure their RTS games are balanced.
That being said, I'd prefer to see even more distinct factions in this game although this was a major break from the uniform civilizations in Civ I and Civ II in its time and well-done especially in the original Alpha Centauri. I'm not too high on the add-on factions.
Quote: ILR, ” The Hive is the only faction based on ethnicity, the strongest of human bonds.” Is the Hive based on ethnicity? I never got that feeling. As with a lot of things in this game, it is not explicitly stated anywhere. I just look at the high degree of unification that the Chinese people have kept up over the millenniums and I have a hard time imagining that such a collectivist state as The Hive could be anything other than a distinct Han Chinese entity when they have Yang as their leader. Maybe there are some quotes in the game that are attributed to non-Chinese characters affiliated with The Hive, but I can't remember any.
The Hive offers no particular abstract ideology. I could see a Turkish scientist, for example, joining either Gaians or The University, or other factions during planetfall but never opting for The Hive. They have nothing in common.
Quote: ” As for the Believers, I could never see Christendom and Ummah uniting under the same banner. The major polytheistic religions would also be left off the faction completely. Perhaps the add-on could have included an Islamic faction?” Unity is launched because of major destruction and upheaval on earth. I believe when the pods crash land, they only have about a hundred people in them, and the timeline of the game is difficult to pin down, but could last several hundred years. So, a small group of mostly Christian creates a society under one powerful and charismatic leader who then guides them for several generations. I could see any number of religious ideologies springing from that. Yes, the smaller scale makes a lot of things plausible. The chaos in Unity breakup. A small initial group. The first few grueling years after planetfall during which all malcontents will have conformed to the consensus ideology or been banished/killed.
As a side note, it's interesting to see Sister Miriam's theology evolve over the course of the game. She starts highly suspicious of the technological advancements required to stay alive, proceeds through cautious pragmatism ("If this is required to keep the Lord's word alive in this planet, so be it") to a curious new-age hybrid in some of the late mid-game Secret Project videos.
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