Becca
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Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 108
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| Posted 01/28/11 at 01:56 PM | Reply with quote #1 |
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| Post your thoughts here about Crystalgard. |
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LD
Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 3
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| Posted 01/31/11 at 08:43 PM | Reply with quote #2 |
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So as to avoid spoilers, I'm posting this here, though it is mostly about the first section of the game.
This is the second time I play the game (it is so short, I was finished in maybe two hours!) and I am still wide eyed with admiration for the scene where Bobbin literally opens the sky in the same way he opened an egg earlier. Let me say the word very clearly: this is poetry.
I guess this is why I so fondly remember this game. The music? bah, I heard Swan's lake a hundred times, and the audio encoding of the early 90s is not helping. The visuals, the plot? I think they're fine, though other Lucas Arts' games of the same period may be on the same level, if not better.
But only Loom had such a creative stance on how your character can interact with the environment, do amazing things like opening the sky, but at the same time remains clueless and helpless against bullies.
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Atomicvege
Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 43
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| Posted 01/31/11 at 10:18 PM | Reply with quote #3 |
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As an extension of that, figuring out how to pass the waterspout invoked amazement. The solution is so simple logically, but your ability to do that just adds to the game.
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Eagles may soar, but Penguins don't get sucked into Jet engines. |
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madsdk
Registered: 06/22/09
Posts: 68
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| Posted 02/01/11 at 05:35 PM | Reply with quote #4 |
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Quote: As an extension of that, figuring out how to pass the waterspout invoked amazement. The solution is so simple logically, but your ability to do that just adds to the game.
I loved that little puzzle. By reading Bobbin's dialogue when clicking the waterspout it became immediately clear what needed to be done, but it was a very nice touch that playing tunes backwards also had meaning. It made me start thinking about what would happen if I played the other four tunes I have written down backwards.
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Becca
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Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 108
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| Posted 02/01/11 at 06:46 PM | Reply with quote #5 |
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Quote: Originally Posted by madsdk
It made me start thinking about what would happen if I played the other four tunes I have written down backwards.
This was basically spoiled for me by the Wikipedia page when I was reading about the game, but I'm sure I would have figured it out anyway. Now I play basically everything backwards to see if it does anything.
On a somewhat related note, I am totally suck already. Crystalgard is really awesome looking, but I think it's hiding some of its paths. I need those triangle things from Final Fantasy VII to show me where the exits are from the screen. A gentle hint would be much appreciated. I guess I need to get past those dudes working on the scythe but I also feel like there might be some object I can interact with that I can't find. |
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LD
Registered: 01/29/11
Posts: 3
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| Posted 02/02/11 at 05:35 AM | Reply with quote #6 |
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Quote: Crystalgard is really awesome looking, but I think it's hiding some of its paths. I need those triangle things from Final Fantasy VII to show me where the exits are from the screen.
I totally agree, this also frustrated me. Fortunately the place is quite small.
Quote: I guess I need to get past those dudes working on the scythe
SPOILER
If I am correct, the problem is that they kick you out of the room as soon as you enter it. Perhaps if you could spot them from some other place, then you would be able to use the distaff on them?
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ILR
Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 140
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| Posted 02/02/11 at 10:13 AM | Reply with quote #7 |
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The waterspout scene demonstrates well how self-contained the puzzles in Loom are. You get the ability to play the F note after you've gathered all the drafts in the Loom Island and you need to figure out the trick to play drafts backwards before you can pass the sea. This is an elegant way to verify that the player has all the drafts up to this point and to teach the concept of backwards drafts. When progressing, Loom often closes the previous area permanently and at least to my knowledge, there is no way to end up stuck in an unwinnable situation at any point in the game. This was certainly not common design at that time.
Of course, you might have tested the dye draft backwards already to see that it bleaches the textiles instead of dyeing them. Loom is a bit open-ended that way, there seems to be a number of places where you can play a draft to get a result that has no value in terms of progressing the game.
I also personally like that the locations in Loom are so constricted. Although some of the solutions are less-than-obvious, there's no aimless backtracking through dozens of screens. After Loom Island, Crystalgard might actually be the most expansive area in the game, with all of 5 or so screens. |
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madsdk
Registered: 06/22/09
Posts: 68
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| Posted 02/02/11 at 04:38 PM | Reply with quote #8 |
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Crystalgard was great fun. I especially liked the use of the scrying sphere - but I won't say more right now so that I don't spoil it for others.
Somebody related the "tune collection" of Loom to the inventory that most adventure games operate with, alluding that the two systems may have the same annoyances. I found that to be correct today... Once I ended up trying all tunes on all items found in a screen :-) While I dislike doing that in any adventure game (the whole "try everything with everything else"-scheme) I think that avoiding it completely is probably not possible without making the game far too easy to complete -- does anybody have any thoughts on that?
Another thing that I came to think about while playing today was the fact that Loom's "inventory" is non-digital. I keep pen and paper within reach at all time while playing, so that i can jot down the tunes when I encounter them. For someone like me who have played numerous games where mapping the game on a piece of paper was a necessity, having to manually keep the inventory is no problem. But I wonder how younger gamers, who are not accustomed with that kind of game, would react to that?
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Becca
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Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 108
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| Posted 02/03/11 at 03:29 PM | Reply with quote #9 |
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I agree with you, Mads, that the tune collection ends up being an inventory system. I have also fallen prey to trying every spell on objects until something happens. It's far less rewarding when you solve a puzzle that way than when you figure it out. I guess that's just a necessary evil with these games.
SPOILERS:
So I might just be angry that I couldn't figure it out, but does anyone else think it's totally counter-intuitive that to make Bobbin invisible he must play the spell of invisibility on the people he doesn't want to see him? I kept thinking that that was the solution to the puzzle, but couldn't figure out how to cast a spell on Bobbin.
I agree with Mads that the scrying sphere part was cool. This is what to do because this is what you are going to do. I appreciate also that they don't actually show the transformation there so it's sort of a shock when you actually do it.
I guess I count as a younger-type gamer, but writing down the spells came naturally for me. Granted, I also had a notebook to keep track of nonsense in a Harvest Moon game once so I've got that going for me. I thought at first that the book you get on the Island would remember the spells for you, but it wasn't a problem when it didn't. I don't play the game on full screen so I just keep a notepad window open with the spells.
Anyway, I really enjoyed the visuals of Crystalgard and I think the music was perfect. It's too bad this game is so short because although this place was big, there must have still been so much more to explore. I would love to know what those blue table-like things were on the beach.
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madsdk
Registered: 06/22/09
Posts: 68
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| Posted 02/03/11 at 04:11 PM | Reply with quote #10 |
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SPOILERS:
Quote: So I might just be angry that I couldn't figure it out, but does anyone else think it's totally counter-intuitive that to make Bobbin invisible he must play the spell of invisibility on the people he doesn't want to see him?
It's not just you ;-) I found it to be very counter-intuitive as well. I kept wanting to select myself (which you can in fact do later on in the game) in order to cast the invisibility spell.
END SPOILERS
Quote: It's too bad this game is so short because although this place was big, there must have still been so much more to explore.
I felt the same way about Crystalgard. The place is quite big and the background graphics/landscape seems very interesting, which made it a bit disappointing that I was unable to go there and explore. The same can be said about the forge actually...
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Wouter
Registered: 02/03/11
Posts: 2
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| Posted 02/04/11 at 04:56 AM | Reply with quote #11 |
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I think the biggest difference between using the tunes and having an inventory+verbs systems is that you're interpreting what the tunes do yourself, I found myself correcting the names of tunes in my notes a few times:
SPOILER:
(flask -> drip -> empty/fill)
END SPOILER
Makes you feel like you're doing much more of the thinking than when you click "use crowbar on door" in other adventures!
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madsdk
Registered: 06/22/09
Posts: 68
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| Posted 02/04/11 at 06:02 AM | Reply with quote #12 |
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Quote:
SPOILER:
(flask -> drip -> empty/fill)
END SPOILER
I have that exact same note ;-)
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whitewind
Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 7
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| Posted 02/10/11 at 08:48 AM | Reply with quote #13 |
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SPOILERS:
Quote: Originally Posted by madsdk
Quote: So I might just be angry that I couldn't figure it out, but does anyone else think it's totally counter-intuitive that to make Bobbin invisible he must play the spell of invisibility on the people he doesn't want to see him?
It's not just you ;-) I found it to be very counter-intuitive as well. I kept wanting to select myself (which you can in fact do later on in the game) in order to cast the invisibility spell.
If I remember correctly, the draft in question was called in the manual "camouflage", or something like that, meaning that it doesn't actually make you invisible, rather conceals you from other people. So the way it's used actually makes sense, since it needs to target someone else's eyes. For the same reasons later in the game you cannot conceal the sheep using that draft since the dragon is nowhere in sight. The fact that they made Bobbin look transparent while the spell is active is misleading, though.
END SPOILERS
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davidcarlton
Moderator
Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 548
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| Posted 02/12/11 at 09:54 PM | Reply with quote #14 |
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| I really liked the start of this level: like other people, I appreciated the waterspout puzzle. (Though that could have been super-frustrating if I hadn't happened to get it, of course...) But then I got annoyed at the game, for a lot of the reasons Becca mentioned. It's just not obvious how to navigate through the levels - I still can't reliably navigate through the area with the bell in the front left and the chalice in the front right, even though I know where it's possible to go.
And, for whatever reason, I didn't think to double-click on objects. Or maybe I did, and it didn't have an effect - I know that, once I learned about double-clicking, my clicks didn't always register even though I thought I was clicking in the right area. I feel really silly going to gamefaqs and being told "double-click here", but that's what I ended up doing... (After doing way too much "try every single spell forwards and backwards.  )
Then, once I'd done that, I thought that maybe I should actually look at the manual. (I'm playing the Steam version.) Which wouldn't have helped with that problem, as it turned out, but I really liked the list of tunes there - something about putting names to the tunes really made a difference for me. (Maybe it brought back memories of playing Enchanter, or something. Gnusto, anyone?) And of course I enjoyed reading the descriptions, too. |
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Becca
Moderator
Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 108
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| Posted 02/14/11 at 03:35 PM | Reply with quote #15 |
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This manual is great! I had no idea this was available. I'm a huge fan of all the different guilds mentioned (Psychotherapists, Nannies, Firefighters) and the descriptions. It does seem to give some hints (for example, it mentions the dye only works on wool) and it also seems like there are a lot more spells than I thought there would be.
I might have to print this out and use it too keep track. I made the dumb mistake of not saving the text file I was writing the spells in and restarted my computer. So, it's gone and the notes are different every game, which means I now have to start over. It shouldn't take too long but it's still pretty annoying.
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